Doubleheader situation

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by canadaump6

In game 1 of a doubleheader, base umpire ejects a player for a personal remark. The rest of the game is completed without any other problems. The teams need to start the second game of the doubleheader asap because the lights are on a timer.

How much time is reasonable to give the umpires between games? Is it acceptable that they spend some of that time phoning the league president asking if the ejected player is suspended for the second game of the doubleheader, or should whatever suspension happens take place in a game after the doubleheader when the umpire has filled out an ejection report?

I'm asking this because as a player I had a doubleheader where a player on my team was ejected, and the umpires took over 20 minutes in between games, which I suspect was because they were phoning the guy in charge of the league to ask if the ejected player gets a suspension. They were leaving phone messages and calling different numbers to get in contact with him, so it took longer than just a quick phone call. Given the situation of needing to get the second game in as soon as possible, was it reasonable that they would take extra time phoning the convenor rather than filling out an ejection report after the doubleheader and letting the convenor decide further consequences?

Do you not work double headers with a partner yourself?

If you do, how much time do you take between games to get ready?


Tim.

[JJ]

In my neck of the woods it's 30 minutes between games. That's NCAA, Legion, and Independent games. There are times we'll tell THEM we'll try to be out in 25, but 30 is the rule of thumb.

As to the "lights being on a timer"...I have NO control over that. That's just poor planning, and I certainly hope they don't try to blame ME for not getting in a game because the lights get shut off! I could suggest we start everyone with a 1-1 count

And dealing with that ejected player - you need to find out BEFORE you go umpire in any league/game what their policy is for players sitting out game 2. FED ball calls for him to sit. PRO rules do not. I don't know about LL, or Cal Ripkin, or Dixie - you get the the idea. The time to deal with that crap is to know going in what your options are.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by JJ

In my neck of the woods it's 30 minutes between games. That's NCAA, Legion, and Independent games. There are times we'll tell THEM we'll try to be out in 25, but 30 is the rule of thumb.

As to the "lights being on a timer"...I have NO control over that. That's just poor planning, and I certainly hope they don't try to blame ME for not getting in a game because the lights get shut off! I could suggest we start everyone with a 1-1 count

And dealing with that ejected player - you need to find out BEFORE you go umpire in any league/game what their policy is for players sitting out game 2. FED ball calls for him to sit. PRO rules do not. I don't know about LL, or Cal Ripkin, or Dixie - you get the the idea. The time to deal with that crap is to know going in what your options are.

I can't find anything in the FED rules that says an ejection is for the day.


FYI in LL you are automatically suspended from the next physically played game.

[Ump29]

In my area it laid out what type of offense causes an automatic second game suspension or more. Argue balls and strikes etc. gets you only the game your are ejected from, something more serious gets an automatic game beyond the "ejected" game.
As to time between games, 20 to 30 minutes seems fair and is usual locally.

[UmpJM]

canadaump6,

I would concur with others who suggest that 20-30 minutes between games is pretty standard and reasonable. What the umpires do between games is their business.

As to the question of whether a player ejected in the first game of a DH is eligible to play in the 2nd game, I would agree with SD Steve that that question is in no way the umpires' concern and I would further suggest that it is not within the scope of the umpires' authority to rule one way or the other on the question.

That is a league matter. The umpires do have a role in determining eligibility during a game, but not prior to the start of the game. If a team uses an ineligible player in a game, most leagues have a specified penalty (most commonly, automatic forfeit of the game in question, in my experience), and it is the league's business to enforce the penalty.

In response to cbfoulds' point, while I can empathize with his point of view, if I eject a player in the 1st game of a DH and he is in the lineup of the 2nd game of the DH, he "starts over" from my perspective. If the player in question "behaves", I've got no problem. If he deserves it, I'll eject him again.

If I happen to know that the league in question has a mandatory & immediate one subsequent game suspension (as the IHSA does, for example), I would ask the manager in question if he was aware of that and still planned to use the player. If he did, I wouldn't try to stop him, but I would likely file a report with the league noting that he had done so. It is not the umpires' responsibility to enforce league disciplinary regulations outside the context of the game.

JM

[JJ]

[QUOTE=Rich Ives;538252]I can't find anything in the FED rules that says an ejection is for the day.
QUOTE]

My bad - in Illinois an Unsportsmanlike ejection is an automatic one game suspension in FED.

JJ

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by JJ

My bad - in Illinois an Unsportsmanlike ejection is an automatic one game suspension in FED.

JJ

Actually, the suspension for an IHSA game is gone for the day until the next scheduled contest at that level. Or suspended for the next 10 days, which ever comes first. So if you were ejected during a JV game, you have to sit out all contests until the next JV game is scheduled.

Peace

[Forest Ump]

This one sure rubs me the wrong way. We stand up the entire game, in the sun sometimes, hustling into positions, maybe taking in some water between innings.

They sit every half inning, eating, drinking, and getting rest. Coaches have to be clueless to think we don't need some time to rejuvenate.

They’re young and we are.... well not quite as young. 20 minutes minimum between games at least and none of anybodies business what I do with my time.

[canadaump6]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

Do you not work double headers with a partner yourself?

If you do, how much time do you take between games to get ready?


Tim.

Depends on the league and whether it is a tournament. For some tournaments we have up to an hour in between games. I've had other doubleheaders where if we take more than 15 minutes somebody is nagging us.

My problem is that the umpires in the doubleheader described used their time phoning people to see if the ejected player sits out the second game. Suspensions are not their call, but like a lot of people have said it helps knowing what the policy is going into the doubleheader.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by canadaump6

Depends on the league and whether it is a tournament. For some tournaments we have up to an hour in between games. I've had other doubleheaders where if we take more than 15 minutes somebody is nagging us.

My problem is that the umpires in the doubleheader described used their time phoning people to see if the ejected player sits out the second game. Suspensions are not their call, but like a lot of people have said it helps knowing what the policy is going into the doubleheader.

You shouldn't care what they do between games. It's their time. If I was told we needed to start as quick as possible, I would let them know "we'll be out when we're changed and ready." I couldn't possibly care how much of Game 2 is played -- we're getting paid and the lights are on a timer.

[ozzy6900]

• Timer on lights is not my problem.
• I will take 20 to 30 minutes between games of a DH.
• The league is responsible for laying down the rules of how many games a player or coach is ejected for.

Let me say this about that ejected player. If he screws up again, he's gone again! My partner excused a coach in game one. At the plate meeting for game 2, the same coach started running his mouth and I excused him for that game too. See, it's easy if the leagues don't do their job.

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

I can't find anything in the FED rules that says an ejection is for the day

You are correct, Rich. However, many High Schools have adopted the rule that if you are ejected from a game, you will sit the next scheduled game also.

[DG]

I ejected a pitcher in the first inning of a college wood bat summer league game about 3-4 years ago for directing a profane comment towards me about a call at 3b.

When the manager came out with his lineup for the 2nd game he asked me before handing me the lineup if it was going to be ok with me for him to pitch. I told him the last game is over and as long as he behaves I consider the case closed on the previous game. He pitched well in the 2nd game and behaved himself.

Unless there is a specific league rule that I am aware of to sit two for an ejection I don't make em up as I go.

[JJ]

Originally Posted by DG

I ejected a pitcher in the first inning of a college wood bat summer league game about 3-4 years ago for directing a profane comment towards me about a call at 3b.

When the manager came out with his lineup for the 2nd game he asked me before handing me the lineup if it was going to be ok with me for him to pitch. I told him the last game is over and as long as he behaves I consider the case closed on the previous game. He pitched well in the 2nd game and behaved himself.

Unless there is a specific league rule that I am aware of to sit two for an ejection I don't make em up as I go.

I'll bet he was very well behaved, too, in that second game. The intelligent ones CAN be trained.

JJ