Are umpire associations to blame

[PeteBooth]

Huskerblue's recent thread (Another Umpire assaulted) and lawump (Yet another blown call) prompted me for this thread.

Rich and rightly so will no longer umpire for that league HOWEVER, the fact is some umpire association or independent contractor will and perhaps a similar incident to the one Rich experienced will happen again.

The Minor League umpires went on strike YET MLB found another outlet.

The point I am making is this.

In the NCAA if a school violates NCAA policy ie; teams like SMU (who was once a power- house in the old South-Western Conference in football with the likes of Eric Dickerson and Craig James) , Kentucky and UNLV (under Tarkanian) in basketball plus a host of others, these schools receive the "death penalty" so to speak by not being able to appear in tournaments and also cut down on the number of scholarships they can give.

Therefore, should teams such as the one Rich encountered be "blackballed" from all Officials. In other words, no Umpire association or independent contractor should have anything to do with this team.

If umpire associations do not stick up for one another it appears nothing will get done. These teams get a "pat on the wrist" and go on there merry way and unfortunately the next group of officials will get burned.

I realize in the world of officating this is difficult to do but generally speaking what do you think of the concept or do you have other ideas on how to treat schools or teams such as the ones we have heard about lately.

Thanks

Pete Booth

[Welpe]

It would be nice if all associations in an area would tell a league or team to go pound sand but we know that is not realistic. There will always be umpires and associations that are looking for the money, especially if the games are a higher or more "prestigious" level.

As long as there are independent associations (or in Rich's case, independent umpires) there will be someone working those games.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by Welpe

It would be nice if all associations in an area would tell a league or team to go pound sand but we know that is not realistic. There will always be umpires and associations that are looking for the money, especially if the games are a higher or more "prestigious" level.

As long as there are independent associations (or in Rich's case, independent umpires) there will be someone working those games.

Umpires may eject and, in some cases, may declare forfeits. What happens to teams, players and coaches after that are not our affair. We do not decide on any additional punishment.

We are the cops, others are judges.

If an individual umpire chooses to boycott a team or league, so be it, but for an association to take such action, in my opinion, would not be correct.

[Welpe]

I think a local association is well within their rights to tell a league fraught with problems that they will no long provide umpire services for them (barring any contractual agreements of course). I am only speaking of summer and rec type leagues that are similar to the one Rich dealt with. I realize in most areas with umbrella organizations such as the NFHS there is more accountability and assigning is a more structured affair. Here, for high school games, indepdendent associations are certified by the state and they contract with either a school or a conference for umpire services. In this area, it is certainly within an association's right to no longer provide services for a school once their contract expires.

[PeteBooth]

To my knowledge none of the umpires that have been recently thrown at has been severly injured.

Suppose an umpire does get seriously injured you do not think "other' associations or independent contactors should not take action by simply "blackballing" this league or team?

Pete Booth

[LMan]

Maybe not yet, but probabilities would indicate that eventually an umpire will suffer a serious injury from these premeditated beanings. If they continue, its inevitable...and why not? Next time I want to seriously harm someone with a small object, I'm going to drag them onto a field, peg 'em, and call it a baseball game...that way its legal!

RE: umpire associations, the ever-present grub for the Smitty-buck is a serious impediment to concerted action, just as the 'win now' mentality helped Tark the Shark, et al, gain repeated employment despite their shoddy characters and repeated ethical violations (hi, Slick Rick!).

You think they'll agree on this type of stop-work action? Someone will always take the games if they are paying....like that old saw, 'We've established what you are, now we are discussing the price."

[archangel]

OP Title: Are umpire associations to blame?

In a nutshell, NO!
Both examples you spoke of would've happened whether or not all assoc stood together prior to them happening....
I'm sure you started this thread for conversation purposes only, but it seems like society always has to "blame" everyone/everthing possible when something goes wrong...i.e. passerby injured by drunk driver = sue the driver, bar, whiskey maker, drinkers friends, car company, and on and on....

I'm frankly tired of having to change how I live/work due to the actions of a very small minority. How many thousands of ball players are there vs the miniscule % that cross the line we are discussing? Penalize/Deal with those responsible!

In a capitalistic society, you are dreaming to think a league wouldnt find an assoc to use......

[ozzy6900]

I think that many problem are our fault as umpires. How many times have you seen a coach verbally assault an umpire past the point of being ejected only to return to the dugout and continue the game. How many times have you seen a player throw his helmet in disgust and heard the umpire say to the coach, "Do you want to handle this or do yo want me to?"? How many times have you heard your brother umpires praise themselves that they haven't ejected anyone all year!

I see this happen all the time. Coaches & players do things that they should be dealt with (usually ejection unless it is a FED game) but the umpires for some reason, will not do anything but warn, warn, warn! Now this coach tries to get away with the same thing in the game I am officiating, and he's gone in a minute - I am told that I have a quick trigger or I need to be more tolerant! Bull$hit! It's not my fault that every umpire let the coach get away with screaming from the coaches box "You got to callit the same both ways!" or "You are horrible!" all damn year! I seriously think that most of our problems are growing because many umpires are afraid to eject, unsure when to eject, afraid of loosing games or worst of all too damn lazy to fill out the ejection report!

[justanotherblue]

Ozzy, I couldn't agree more!!

[DG]

Assigner should simply stop assigning for a league like the one Rich encountered. As an association member I may not be aware of what happened, but he surely would be. Any contract with the league that does not have an out clause for gross misconduct is a bad contract.

[johnnyg08]

DG...could you provide an example of the verbiage of an "out clause"? I tried to find a way to put it into our league contracts last year, but couldn't think of a professional way to articulate it.

[johnnyg08]

I agree with ozzy's statement as well..more umps need to grow some balls and start dumping people...it's part of game management. They take so much abuse that it piles on to the next guy and the next guy...if they know that all you're going to do is warn...why not keep it up?

[Rcichon]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

I think .............clipped........

Exactly!

Even in small ball amongst officials that have been there for years and KNOW they should eject, there is apathy.

Society is all too permissive these days. For the most part, there is no penalty for bad behaviour. That's what is being taught in schools as well, at least around the Northeast.

While I agree that more umpires need to learn better game management skills pertaining to coaches/players arguing calls, I DO NOT think that a quick finger serves any purpose. Trust me, I spent MANY years working that way, and it just frustrated me more and more. I used to get really upset that more guys don't "handle things" better. Now, I just handle things better.

It starts with ME doing a GREAT JOB no matter what game it is. If I am hustling, using good timing and good judgement, there is little they can complain about! I see more guys get yelled out simply because the dimwit doesn't show that he is engaged with the game, or care about the game.

Then you got the guys that take the opportunistic "easy outs". You know the calls, bases loaded with one out, team at bat down one in the top of the 7th, double play attempt, runner beats it by a hair by blue calls him out so that we don't go extra innings.

Or:

3-0 pitch is 8" inside, but they strike it anyway.

Talk about not having balls!

But it just kills me to see lazy umpiring coupled with opportunistic calls for outs. It is usually these same guys that after the game think I will be empathetic about how the "clamped down on that as*hole coach who complained". I actually usually feel for that coach and the players! I am sorry that they had to be subjected to umpiring that emphasizes the umpire getting out of the game as quickly as possible.

Now, out of 100 or so games this year, I have 4 ejections. Two were tactical ejections in college games for a team that needed to win the series to make the post season, one for a dummy who drew a line in the box where he thought the pitch came across, and one for a assistant coach this summer who thought that he was entitled to argue a call at first.

Now, I don't think I am the greatest balls and strikes guy in the world, but I also know that I am VERY consistent. Some coaches do not like that I call the high zone "by the book", but they NEVER argue because they see it go both ways, and I am VERY consistent with my calls. On the bases, they know I call what I see, and truthfully, I have had a coach come out on my maybe 5 times this year over a call. It is a rare happening anymore! Usually, when they do, the talk is civilized. Indeed, many coaches start out yelling, but that settles down once I calmly state "Coach, if you could talk to me instead of yelling, I would be will to discuss the call with you". It works like a charm every time.

Some of you guys who think quick ejections are good, maybe you should look into Verbal Judo. Seriously, it totally changed the way I deal with angry people. My ejections are WAY down, coaches are FAR more happy with me, and I am far more happy leaving games. It has worked wonders for me refereeing soccer too! I used to issue a yellow card for dissent about every other game in soccer. Over the 80 someodd games I do a year, that is a LOT! In the last year, I have issued 1 dissent card. My red cards are WAY down too.

It isn't about "avoiding the ejection report", or avoiding dealing with things on the field. It is about getting voluntary compliance with what I want them to do. I actually get people to do what I want them to do now, and all that I give up is listening to a little guff and answering it with questions that lead them to doing what I want them to do. Verbal Judo is AMAZING in this way. Since employing it, players, coaches, fans, assignors, etc...respect me FAR more than they ever did before. Coaches actually complain far less now because they know that I will listen to them IF they approach me in a manner that I like. It is amazing. By being more approachable and actually listening to them, I get less crap. The next time I have the coach, I have his respect, and am approached in a very calm way.

The short fuse never got me anywhere. Assignors were reluctant to put me on important games because they didn't know if they could trust that I could handle it. Now, there is no game that any of my assignors would NOT put me on. They respect and trust that I can handle the situations on the field in a professional manner, and that I probably won't have to resort to ejections to keep the focus on the players/play on the field!

Coincidently, I have not been "beaned" either. I enjoy VERY good relations with every catcher I work behind. I keep the lines of communication open. I let them know that they can disagree with my call provided that it stays civil and respectful. You would not believe how well that works! I almost NEVER hear a complaint from a catcher, and they often handle their coaches for me! They let them know where the pitches are and even "protect" me when I miss one here and there. I freely admit to the catcher if I miss one. If he says "Hey Ed, I thought that was a strike". I usually reply "I will look at that pitch closer next time Joe. Sorry if I missed it". Usually the response is "That's alright, you have been consistent all day, and that one was pretty close."

Being approachable, polite, and humble and can go a LONG way to excellent relations. I know guys who have HORRIBLE judgement on the field but have little said to them by players/coaches. They do not come across pretentious, and remain approachable and humble no matter what happens. You couple that with the willingness to dump a guy when they actually do cross the line, you have the perfect umpire.

I probably give warnings a bit sooner than some do, but I try to do so in a professional manner, and I do my part afterwards by continuing to work hard out there.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by rei

Coincidently, I have not been "beaned" either.

You know what, I was reading this post carefully all the way to this point. If you think I'll take any blame whatsoever for getting hit thanks to a repeat offender who's been ejected at every level of the game -- someone who is a piece of garbage as a human being -- you're out of your mind.

And you're also coming across as someone who's **** simply doesn't stink.