pickoff at 2nd, what's the call?

[LMan]

[QUOTE=chuckfan1]

Originally Posted by LMan

Never pass up a chance to get an out.

....And I wish you continued success in your career as UIC in your local Parks and Recreation League. Calling that play an out at a higher level wont have you there long...

Your sarcasm attempt was every bit as lame as your failure to note the emoticon I used.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Out.

Bob:

I respect you posts quite a bit. So I a little suprised by your response. After reading further posts would you change your mind?

MTD, Sr.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Bob:

I respect you posts quite a bit. So I a little suprised by your response. After reading further posts would you change your mind?

MTD, Sr.

No.

[chuckfan1]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

No.

Then besides your eloquent one word responses, can you explain how you have an out on a play where it appears (from whats said in the post) that R2 is in control of his body, standing on the bag, has "control" of the base, and the throw takes F6 into the runner..

..."after catching the ball is off balance and leans on the runner"
and
..."the runner falls to the ground with the shortstop and comes off the base"

Why do you give the benefit of the doubt on this to the defense when it was the defense that was the impetus for the runner coming off the base.
So your saying the infielders can pretty much have carte blanche in making contact with the runner? In trying to make a play?

I too, like the other poster have always viewed your thoughts with respect...just seem a little surprising youd have an out on this.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by chuckfan1

Then besides your eloquent one word responses, can you explain how you have an out on a play where it appears (from whats said in the post) that R2 is in control of his body, standing on the bag, has "control" of the base, and the throw takes F6 into the runner..

..."after catching the ball is off balance and leans on the runner"
and
..."the runner falls to the ground with the shortstop and comes off the base"

Why do you give the benefit of the doubt on this to the defense when it was the defense that was the impetus for the runner coming off the base.
So your saying the infielders can pretty much have carte blanche in making contact with the runner? In trying to make a play?

I too, like the other poster have always viewed your thoughts with respect...just seem a little surprising youd have an out on this.

I can't asnwer for Bob, but for me, you make this sound like a play that took a long time to develop, whereas I see it as bang bang, as most pick 0ff plays are. Most likely the runner reached the bag and the field was receiving the ball...no way to confirm that the runner was stable and in control of himself. If indeed it was bang, bang...I have an out.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

No.

Ridiculously oversimplified answer to a very complex question.

So, Bob...what you are saying is basically that it doesn't matter to you if the runner is firmly planted on the base, it's okay for the fielder to physically remove him from the base to tag him? Why don't we just give the fielder a gun and have him steal the runner's wallet and gold links while we're at it then?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Ridiculously oversimplified answer to a very complex question.

So, Bob...what you are saying is basically that it doesn't matter to you if the runner is firmly planted on the base, it's okay for the fielder to physically remove him from the base to tag him? Why don't we just give the fielder a gun and have him steal the runner's wallet and gold links while we're at it then?

He's not saying that -- his answer was only one word, after all.

If he's firmly on the base a "lean" isn't going to take R2 down, is it?

[SanDiegoSteve]

It seems to me that it is a very simple determination:

Runner's impetus takes him off the base in any manner, OUT.

Runner's impetus is not carrying him off base and then without supplying any of the actual momentum himself, is pushed off the base by the fielder, SAFE.

[umpduck11]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Why don't we just give the fielder a gun and have him steal the runner's wallet and gold links while we're at it then?

Because if it's a FED game, the runner shouldn't be wearing gold links in the first place ?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

No.

Bob:

I don't want to beat a dead horse, but if R2 has returned to second base. He is standing on second base and has complete control of his body and F4 is standing behind him and attempts to reach around R2 and knocks R2 to the ground to catch F2's throw, you are going to allow him to tag R2 out?

R2 bas done what he is supposed to do: Return to second base before F2's throw reaches F4 in time to tag R2 out.

MTD, Sr.

[chuckfan1]

Well..
In your JUDGEMENT....what caused R2 to come off the base?
If R2 was in control of his body, in "control" of the base and the movements of F6 caused R2 to come off the base, then.. "safe" "time!"...and allow R2 to get back on the base. Doesnt sound like anything malicious on the part of F6. Just the momentum of him catching the ball pulled them off.

Or..

in your judgement...R2 was in contact with the base, but didnt appear to be in control of his body/movement, i.e. trying to maintain contact with the base etc...and F6 makes a routine baseball play, and R2 comes off the base...then you got an out.

Sounds like in your play it would be the former..