pickoff at 2nd, what's the call?

[fits]

Pickoff try at second base, the runner gets back to second base standing up, the shortstop coming in behind second base has to reach around the runner standing on second to catch the throw. The shortstop, after catching the ball is off balance and leans on the runner, the runner falls to the ground with the shortstop and comes off the base. The shortstop applies the tag from the catch to the ground.
What is the ruling on this play?

[bob jenkins]

Out.

[chuckfan1]

Well..
In your JUDGEMENT....what caused R2 to come off the base?
If R2 was in control of his body, in "control" of the base and the movements of F6 caused R2 to come off the base, then.. "safe" "time!"...and allow R2 to get back on the base. Doesnt sound like anything malicious on the part of F6. Just the momentum of him catching the ball pulled them off.

Or..

in your judgement...R2 was in contact with the base, but didnt appear to be in control of his body/movement, i.e. trying to maintain contact with the base etc...and F6 makes a routine baseball play, and R2 comes off the base...then you got an out.

Sounds like in your play it would be the former..

[chuckfan1]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Out.

"Runner gets back to the base standing up"... "reach around the runner standing on second to catch the throw".. "the shortstop, after catching the ball is off balance and leans on the runner"

Without seeing the play in question, it appears R2 had complete control of his body, was standing on the base, which tells me he wasnt trying to maintain control of the base, and F6 comes in trying to take the throw which takes him into the runner, and in the process of that..
"the runner falls to the ground with the shortstop and comes off the base"

Why you picking up the shi**y end of the stick here?

[David B]

Originally Posted by chuckfan1

"Runner gets back to the base standing up"... "reach around the runner standing on second to catch the throw".. "the shortstop, after catching the ball is off balance and leans on the runner"

Without seeing the play in question, it appears R2 had complete control of his body, was standing on the base, which tells me he wasnt trying to maintain control of the base, and F6 comes in trying to take the throw which takes him into the runner, and in the process of that..
"the runner falls to the ground with the shortstop and comes off the base"

Why you picking up the shi**y end of the stick here?

Hey, he won't go back in standing up again will he. ..

Thanks
David

[Rich]

Originally Posted by chuckfan1

"Runner gets back to the base standing up"... "reach around the runner standing on second to catch the throw".. "the shortstop, after catching the ball is off balance and leans on the runner"

Without seeing the play in question, it appears R2 had complete control of his body, was standing on the base, which tells me he wasnt trying to maintain control of the base, and F6 comes in trying to take the throw which takes him into the runner, and in the process of that..
"the runner falls to the ground with the shortstop and comes off the base"

Why you picking up the shi**y end of the stick here?

Why did the runner go back in standing up?

[chuckfan1]

[QUOTE=David B]Hey, he won't go back in standing up again will he. ..

The better choice for the runner is to obviously go back in with a slide. But maybe the play wasnt close? But just because the runner goes back in standing, doesnt mean that F6 can get the advantage and get an out by knocking him off the bag as F6 "leans on the runner".
Yeah, I guess you can get an out. But all the evidence on this play (going with the OP), is on the side of the runner. Runner appears to have gained control of the bag, and his body. However the throw is what causes F6 to knock into the runner, which is what causes the runner to come off the bag.

[chuckfan1]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Why did the runner go back in standing up?

Without having seen it , maybe it wasnt close. But shouldnt matter, from the post it appears the runner had the bag, and the throw/F6 actions is what caused the runner to come off the bag..

[LMan]

Originally Posted by chuckfan1

Why you picking up the shi**y end of the stick here?

Never pass up a chance to get an out.

Safe. There is no way I am calling the runner out. Bad joojoo can only follow an out call.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by rei

Safe. There is no way I am calling the runner out. Bad joojoo can only follow an out call.

Thank you. No way do I call the runner out if he already had control of himself and the base, and I love outs as much as the next guy. I'm not penalizing the runner for poor defensive work, nor am I going to reward the defense with a cheap out.

Now, if the runner was out of control and starting to come off the base on a fairly close play, that would be different.

[chuckfan1]

[QUOTE=LMan]Never pass up a chance to get an out.

....And I wish you continued success in your career as UIC in your local Parks and Recreation League. Calling that play an out at a higher level wont have you there long...

[Rich]

[QUOTE=chuckfan1]

Originally Posted by LMan

Never pass up a chance to get an out.

....And I wish you continued success in your career as UIC in your local Parks and Recreation League. Calling that play an out at a higher level wont have you there long...

Really? So the guy that called Hrbek out in the World Series had a short career?

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Really? So the guy that called Hrbek out in the World Series had a short career?

That doesn't make the call right. You can't just go around pushing people off the base and tagging them. What kind of bush crap is that?

Drew Coble ruled that Gant's momentum carried him off the bag, not Hrbek's tag. Different than the OP.

[SanDiegoSteve]

From BaseballLibrary.com:

"First base umpire Drew Coble ruled that Gant, who didn't slide on the play, had come off the bag because of the momentum caused by his awkward stand-up return to the bag. "He lunged into the bag," Coble told Rob Rains of USA Today Baseball Weekly. "His momentum was carrying toward the first base dugout. When he did that, he began to switch feet. He tried to pick up one foot and bring the other one down. In my judgment, [Gant's] momentum carried him over the top of Hrbek." In essence, Coble was saying that he would have called Gant safe if he felt that Hrbek's body had forced him off the bag, but he called him out because he felt that the natural momentum of Gant's twisting body had resulted in his separation from the base."