Foot Outside The Box

[starman]

I was hoping someone could give tell me if I right or wrong about this......

10 year old little lague game and I was coaching 3rd. Batter had 2 strikes.
The pitch was behind the batter, but the ump called strike-three because because the batter had a foot outside of the box.

I argued that there is no penalty for having a foot outisde the box unless the bat touches the ball. The ump tells me that anytime the batter's foot is outside the box, the pitch is a strike.

[dash_riprock]

You were right. The ump had it very wrong.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Where do they get umpires like this? Oh, yeah....the bleachers.

[UMP 64]

[SIZE="3"] OMG!!! Where DO these guys come up with these S**T. It is umpires like this, that ruin it for so many good ones. Please, someone straighten this (ump) guy out. Better yet, trade the ump for a horse and shoot the horse!
Just teasing bout shooting the horse.
Obviously, someone told this guy that was a "rule" from somewhere. Shame on this ump for never having read ANY baseball rule book. Takes too much time.

[bigda65]

Starman,

How did the protest turn out??

I hope you did protest.

If you didn't protest you should have, at least he would have learned something new.

[starman]

We did not protest. I am not the head coach, so I told the ump my opinion and let it be. We ended up loosing 6-5.

I kind of wish I did protest, just to make the point to the ump. The ump was about 19 years old. We had him for 4 games in 5 days. He did a good job with balls and strikes and on the bases.

Here is another story about the same ump......

Two days ago, the other team was complaining because our pitcher was going to his mouth on the mound. So the same ump warns our pitcher and we explain to him that he has to go off the mound if he is going to lick his fingers. Then, in between innings, I over hear the ump and the other team's coach still talking about it. I ignore it, until I hear the ump say to the other head coach "I don't know what the penalty should be for that, a walk?". I walked over and told him them that the penalty is a ball, he seemed to beleive me. The issue never came up again.

[DG]

Originally Posted by starman

Here is another story about the same ump......

Two days ago, the other team was complaining because our pitcher was going to his mouth on the mound. So the same ump warns our pitcher and we explain to him that he has to go off the mound if he is going to lick his fingers. Then, in between innings, I over hear the ump and the other team's coach still talking about it. I ignore it, until I hear the ump say to the other head coach "I don't know what the penalty should be for that, a walk?". I walked over and told him them that the penalty is a ball, he seemed to beleive me. The issue never came up again.

There should be no penalty for a 10 year old going to his mouth because 1) the rule was meant for adults and 2) a 10 year old is not likely to be able to throw a spitter. Just tell him to stop doing that.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by DG

There should be no penalty for a 10 year old going to his mouth because 1) the rule was meant for adults and 2) a 10 year old is not likely to be able to throw a spitter.

Go ahead on an load up there, Gaylord...let's see you make the ball dance!

[soundedlikeastrike]

Not sure where they got this guy, but his twin seems to be working in my area: A coach, see's me at work, "hey blue, you umpire, here's what happened." One of my associations umpires, so I'm ready to straighten coach out and splain his weaknesses in the rules arena. This ump is a rookie, I've seen him work several time's, just, I guess never saw him in this particular situation.

This is adult league SP one man. Local industrial league with some very good teams and basically a very competitive well spirited group.

Not that it matters; but final regular season game, H team is 13-0 and stacked, V team is 12-1, you know who gave em their only loss and that was a beat-n....

Bottom of 7 (the last inning) home team down 1, bases juiced 1 out.
GB to F6, 6-4-3 DP 3 outs. V begins celebrating. O coach reaches a bit and say's, hey blue the run counts (R3), umpire says, "yep, R3 clearly scored before the third out"!!!! Dooh!!

I choke a bit, then ask, so, when you protested what was his response?

He's say's "well I wasn't sure, since it was a DP, it didn't seem right but we didn't argue.."

I say's "well, did he offer you a ring or at least to buy breakfast after he scr---- ya that way?"

The first extra inning V doesn't score, bottom, you guessed it, H team pushes across the game winner for the Dubya..

Again we scorn these umpires for not knowing the basics, but I'm telling ya, coaches, it's worth your time to know this stuff, sometimes just the fact you question and threaten or promise to protest, just might get the guy to thinking maybe snap something in the memory banks back into place...amazing...

[TussAgee11]

Originally Posted by soundedlikeastrike

This is adult league SP one man.

Nothing you could have possibly said would have amazed me following this sentence.

[justanotherblue]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Where do they get umpires like this? Oh, yeah....the bleachers.

They call them volunteers I think in LL. Most likely he did play ball through HS, so he must know the rules.

[johnnyg08]

yep, continue to beat up on 19 year old umpires who are umpiring either for free or next to nothing...if you're lucky...maybe he'll quit by the end of the season and you'll have to go through the same crap next year when another aspiring rookie gives it a whirl

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

yep, continue to beat up on 19 year old umpires who are umpiring either for free or next to nothing...if you're lucky...maybe he'll quit by the end of the season and you'll have to go through the same crap next year when another aspiring rookie gives it a whirl

Not sure what this is all about. This 19 year old is umpiring for free or next to nothing? Well, you certainly get what you pay for. I don't feel sorry for the leagues that hire these guys trying to save a buck, and I don't feel sorry for people who attempt to officiate without bothering to at least learn a few basic rules and who make up crap as they go along. If he wasn't sure what the rule was, he should have stopped and consulted the rules, or asked one of the probably many people there what the proper ruling was.

Starman wasn't beating up on the guy. He said that the kid did pretty good on balls and strikes. But he does need to read at least some of the rules before going out on the field and ruining peoples' day.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

If he wasn't sure what the rule was, he should have stopped and consulted the rules, or asked one of the probably many people there what the proper ruling was.

Maybe it's the difference between the pace of baseball as opposed to basketball, but I can't imagine stopping a game long enough to either open up a rules book or consult with someone off the field (even if I know he's a respected official).

Once the game starts, you go with what you got on the field as far as rules knowledge. I can't imagine it's just basketball, but I know a lot of officials who kick rules early in their careers. He11, I ,know a lot of officials who kick the occasional rule late in their careers.

Isn't what youth ball is for (from an officiating perspective)?

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

But he does need to read at least some of the rules before going out on the field and ruining peoples' day.

I'd agree he obviously needs to brush up on the rules, but does he need to be perfect before ever stepping behind the plate?

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Maybe it's the difference between the pace of baseball as opposed to basketball, but I can't imagine stopping a game long enough to either open up a rules book or consult with someone off the field (even if I know he's a respected official).

Well, I've never stopped to look up a rule, nor do I advocate carrying the rules on the field. The point I was making is that if you don't know the rule, don't make up a rule. He should have ignored the foot out of the box instead of making up a rule. It wouldn't have taken long to ask anyone who knows anything about baseball if he was right or not.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Once the game starts, you go with what you got on the field as far as rules knowledge. I can't imagine it's just basketball, but I know a lot of officials who kick rules early in their careers. He11, I ,know a lot of officials who kick the occasional rule late in their careers.

I've worked basketball in my past too. I knew the rules pretty darn well before starting out. I knew, to make a comparable example, that if you step on the out of bounds line with the ball, that you are out of bounds and the other team gets the ball. That's about how basic the batters box rule is in baseball. Not a really tough call, and pretty much common knowledge.

Sure, officials kick rule calls at all levels of experience on occassion. Judgment calls too. But they normally don't kick such basic rules like this one. It's usually a knotty problem like the kind we argue about here, a different interpretation of a rule, for example.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Isn't what youth ball is for (from an officiating perspective)?

No. Before I was allowed on the baseball field in my association, I had to attend classes and clinics and learn the damn rules. It sounds like this guy just bought some gear and a uniform (or it was given to him) and called himself an umpire.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I'd agree he obviously needs to brush up on the rules, but does he need to be perfect before ever stepping behind the plate?

I never said anything about anybody being perfect, either before or after stepping behind the plate. Last perfect person I ever heard of ended up getting hung by the Romans. No, perfection is not a requirement, and you know it's not. But a basic working knowledge of the rules is a requirement to officiate any sport.