I really dislike USSSA's new courtesy runner rule!

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by canadaump6

I love how they say this whole courtesy runner BS is meant to save time. We had a tournament game a few years ago where the person who was taken out for a courtesy runner did not put the gear on to catch the next half inning. 30 minutes of arguing and appealing to the site convenor took place, and the game was played under protest (protest was not upheld). So much for saving 35 seconds.

What was the arguing about and how did this lead to a protest?

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

What was the arguing about and how did this lead to a protest?

I would say that they were arguing that the offense pulled the slow-assed catcher off the bases for a fast courtesy runner, then changed catchers, purposely defeating the purpose of the CR rule.

I would then venture to say that the idiot defensive coach filed a protest claiming that the offense can't do that, which is not true. While a shady, shiesty, dirty, underhanded move...perfectly legal to make a substitute as long as it's a legal sub.

Is that about how it went, Bob?

[canadaump6]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

I would say that they were arguing that the offense pulled the slow-assed catcher off the bases for a fast courtesy runner, then changed catchers, purposely defeating the purpose of the CR rule.

I would then venture to say that the idiot defensive coach filed a protest claiming that the offense can't do that, which is not true. While a shady, shiesty, dirty, underhanded move...perfectly legal to make a substitute as long as it's a legal sub.

Is that about how it went, Bob?

I'm a bit shady on the details, but I believe it was more a case of the protesting coach wanting some sort of advantage (an automatic out, or a forfeit) because the opposing coach took a runner out but that catcher did not come out to catch the next inning.

The policy in our region is that if the person they used the CDR for does not catch the next inning, any runs in the previous half inning are disallowed. No runs were scored during that half inning anyways, so it was just a case of one rat trying to gain an unfair advantage, and the other rat trying to gain a cheap advantage over him.

The arguing and controversy went on for at least half an hour. The plate umpire made a big mistake by saying to the coach whose team had just completed their half inning in the field, that he could protest the game if he wanted. That lengthened things quite a bit.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by canadaump6

The policy in our region is that if the person they used the CDR for does not catch the next inning, any runs in the previous half inning are disallowed. No runs were scored during that half inning anyways, so it was just a case of one rat trying to gain an unfair advantage, and the other rat trying to gain a cheap advantage over him.
.

YGTBSM!

Does this policy apply only on the first and third Thursdays of each Month following the Vernal Equinox?


Tim.

[canadaump6]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

YGTBSM!

Does this policy apply only on the first and third Thursdays of each Month following the Vernal Equinox?


Tim.

It's just a policy Tim. What better alternative would you suggest?

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by canadaump6

It's just a policy Tim. What better alternative would you suggest?

I just think it's a silly policy, brother, that's all.

As the saying goes, "local rules are made by fools."

I'd suggest doing away with the CR altogether............


Tim.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by canadaump6

It's just a policy Tim. What better alternative would you suggest?

Several better choices (imo) than taking runs off the board:

1) No penalty

2) Don't use the CR

3) If the previous F2 doesn't come back out and catch, the CR becomes a "regular sub" retroactively. (Note that this leads to the previous F2 catching for one pitch, then the substitution).

Stop thinking of it as a speed up rule and think of it as a participation rule (similar in that regard to the DH or EH rules).

[TwoBits]

Originally Posted by canadaump6

The policy in our region is that if the person they used the CDR for does not catch the next inning, any runs in the previous half inning are disallowed.

USSSA 8.04.B: Courtesy runners may at any time be used for the pitcher and catcher of record the previous inning on defense.

Since my OP was USSSA specific, I'd be curious to know if this is being done in your USSSA tournaments. If it is, then LMan's comment ("U-trip has rules? Who knew?") makes a lot more sense to me.

[TwoBits]

Okay, disregard my stupidity. I'm now doubting Canadaump is using USSSA rules.

[canadaump6]

Baseball Ontario rules. And when I said "CDR" I should have said "last out" because that is the player who pinch runs for the catcher. I agree that it is just a dumb rule, and it really looks stupid when you waste all that time asking for time, finding the last out, both runners switch up, and then the batter gets out on the first pitch.