Help: Courtesy Runner Rule 7.14

[irish]

We're trying to get some clarification on Rule 7.14 (the Little League "courtesy runner rule").

Can any player not in the line up at that time be a courtesy runner for another player (not substituting)? Or is it only for a player who has NOT YET BEEN IN THE LINE UP AT ANY TIME TO THAT POINT IN TIME?

We've seen the rule written and explained a couple different ways. The rule seems to be written a little ambigious.

The end of the rule seems to say that this special runner (or any other player) may be a courtesy runner again later in the game, whether they've been in the line up or not to that point, as long as when they are put in as a courtesy runner, that they are not, right then, in the line-up. (This end to the rule implies that, in fact, the rule permits a player NOT THEN IN THE LINE UP to be this kind of runner, and that whether or not the runner has ever been in the line-up or not previsously in the game does not matter.)

So if A and B start the game for the home team and B is substituted for by C on defense in the top of the 3rd inning. Can B run for A in the bottom of the third? What if A bats before B's original place in the order? (This gets to "when is a player 'removed' from the line up?) Can B then go back into the field for C in the top of the 4th? If B does not go back for C in the 4th (and is sitting on the bench), can B then run for D in the bottom of the fourth as a courtesy runner for the second time in the game for a different player? Ok, and the last one: Can B be doing all this courtesy running or not, but at any time run for C on the bases regardless of whether another courtesy runner has been used that inning or not because B, in that case, is a SUBSTITUTE for C, and not a courtesy runner and so not subject to this rule at all?

Anyone have any insight on this? Do the questions even make sense? Thanks.

Irish

[LDUB]

Part 2 under courtsey runners covers it.

2. Players who have participated in the game in any other capicity are ineligible to serve as courtsey runners.


So any player that has played offense or defense (except if they were a courtey runner) can not be a courtsey runner.

[Rich Ives]

ATTENTION! MAY I HAVE YOUR ATTENTION PLEASE!

The rule was changed this year. It WAS only a player who had not been in the lineup but now anyone not currently in the lineup may be a special pinch runner.

[LDUB]

Originally posted by Rich Ives

ATTENTION! MAY I HAVE YOUR ATTENTION PLEASE!

The rule was changed this year. It WAS only a player who had not been in the lineup but now anyone not currently in the lineup may be a special pinch runner.

My fault, I looked in a FED rule book.

[mick]

LL 3.04 "Courtesy runner" is not permitted.
LL 7.14 "A special pinch runner" is parmitted.


mick

[irish]

thank you all for your help. it appears that I should be referring to an "SPR" not a "courtesy runner".

in any event, does anyone have any insight as to my scenarios with players A, B, C, and D?

i recently read a past discussion in this forum that stated that my player B could not qualify as an SPR unless he had "not yet been in the lineup". Don't the words of 7.14 say that--although it doesn't make sense read with the last part of 7.14. What version of the rules can I look at? Are there different ones floating around?

anyone want to take a shot at my scenarios and what would be allowed?

we're in the tournament now and are trying to get our arms around using a couple of our quick platooning players in and out of the game.

Thanks again.

Irish

[Rich Ives]

What part of: "The rule was changed this year. It WAS only a player who had not been in the lineup but now anyone not currently in the lineup may be a special pinch runner" is hard to understyand?

In 2003 and earlier, it had to be a player who had not yet been in the lineup.

Starting in 2004, it can be any player not currently in the lineup.

Some folks still haven't read the new rule I guess.

[mick]

Originally posted by irish
thank you all for your help. it appears that I should be referring to an "SPR" not a "courtesy runner".

in any event, does anyone have any insight as to my scenarios with players A, B, C, and D?

i recently read a past discussion in this forum that stated that my player B could not qualify as an SPR unless he had "not yet been in the lineup". Don't the words of 7.14 say that--although it doesn't make sense read with the last part of 7.14. What version of the rules can I look at? Are there different ones floating around?

anyone want to take a shot at my scenarios and what would be allowed?

we're in the tournament now and are trying to get our arms around using a couple of our quick platooning players in and out of the game.

Thanks again.

Irish

Irish,
As long as the SPR is not scheduled to bat (ie. actually written in the book batting order), a line-up player may not be an SPR.

R14 has not batted yet, so R14 may go in for R4 on second.
--->
Next inning, R7 hits a double, R14 may take R7's place at 2B.
--->
Next 1/2 inning, R14 enters game for R9. (Now R14 may not be an SPR, because R14 is now in the line-up.)
--->
Later, R12 enters (or R9 reenters) for R14.
R12 (or R9) doubles. R14 may again become an SPR.

If any kid isn't batting, any kid may be an SPR, but an SPR may be used only once per inning.
Find a faaaaaaaaa-st kid for your roster.

mick





[Edited by mick on Jul 13th, 2004 at 11:46 PM]

[mick]

Originally posted by irish
We're trying to get some clarification on Rule 7.14 (the Little League "courtesy runner rule").


So if A and B start the game for the home team and B is substituted for by C on defense in the top of the 3rd inning. Can B run for A in the bottom of the third?
Yes

What if A bats before B's original place in the order? (This gets to "when is a player 'removed' from the line up?) [/B] Doesn't matter. A player is removed when another legal player properly replaces the player.

Can B then go back into the field for C in the top of the 4th? Yes

If B does not go back for C in the 4th (and is sitting on the bench), can B then run for D in the bottom of the fourth as a courtesy runner for the second time in the game for a different player? Yes

Ok, and the last one: Can B be doing all this courtesy running or not, but at any time run for C on the bases regardless of whether another courtesy runner has been used that inning or not because B, in that case, is a SUBSTITUTE for C, and not a courtesy runner and so not subject to this rule at all? Yes, as a sub, but subject to reentry restrictions.

Fun ain't it?
mick

[irish]

thank you, mick. You've confirmed what we hoped would be the case. irish