Asking partner for help...

[Fritz]

Different scenario but curious as to how you would handle this -

2 man crew, I'm PU, partner in B with R1. Pitch comes in high and outside, batter starts a swing and checks. I have a clear view and call "no he did not, Ball!"

DC tells catch to have me appeal to my partner. Catch asks for an appeal and I respond to him and the coach "coach, my partner is in the middle of the field and doesn't have a better angle than I do."

As we settle in for the next pitch, Coach demands I ask for an appeal, says it is his right. I respond "Coach, I already explained why there is no point in doing so, let's play ball."

Coach continues to mutter under his breath, nothing loud enough for me to understand, and we go on without incident.

Would you have gone ahead and asked for the appeal? This wasn't a case of me getting blocked, blinking or in some other way missing the attempt and needing help. Should I have just quickly asked my partner to get his safe call so we can keep the game moving?

[bobbybanaduck]

since you failed to mention a rule code i will answer for OBR. you HAVE to. it's not an option. for any other rule code, whether it is required or not, yes, you should have gone. it makes you look like a stubborn SOB if you don't. what's the harm in going?

[mbyron]

Exactly right. Why wouldn't you take an extra strike if offered one?

[RPatrino]

NCAA and OBR, you MUST ask for help if you are requested to do so. FED is not required. However, my experience has been that going for help is about the easiest thing you can do in this situation. Why would you not want to do things the 'easy way'?

[Tom H.]

Originally Posted by Fritz

Different scenario but curious as to how you would handle this -

2 man crew, I'm PU, partner in B with R1. Pitch comes in high and outside, batter starts a swing and checks. I have a clear view and call "no he did not, Ball!"

DC tells catch to have me appeal to my partner. Catch asks for an appeal and I respond to him and the coach "coach, my partner is in the middle of the field and doesn't have a better angle than I do."

As we settle in for the next pitch, Coach demands I ask for an appeal, says it is his right. I respond "Coach, I already explained why there is no point in doing so, let's play ball."

Coach continues to mutter under his breath, nothing loud enough for me to understand, and we go on without incident.

Would you have gone ahead and asked for the appeal? This wasn't a case of me getting blocked, blinking or in some other way missing the attempt and needing help. Should I have just quickly asked my partner to get his safe call so we can keep the game moving?

As others have stated, in OBR you have to go to your partner. I really hate it when it is very obvious to grand ma out behind the right field fence that he did not go and I get asked to go to my partner. Hopefully your partner hasn't gone to sleep (and doesn't want to walk home ). In those kind of cases the RAT is most likely using one of the myths about a check swing strike. But I digress.
I learned from a minor league umpire at a camp to handle a check swing-ball like this. In a forcefull tone I say "BALL,...NO!" so as to remove all doubt as to my ruling. Once I had a fairly smart catcher who replied to his head RAT (when the rat wanted an appeal) "He asid 'NO!'" . That kid got my best 'zone' that day. Seriously...It works pretty well for me.

[jicecone]

Bobby good advice on the original situation. Sometimes crap happens out there and you just gotta go with the best info you got.

Don't make it up and use your help when you have to. Then before the coach can say squat, you have already addressed the situation the best way possible. If at that point he wants to still stay and watch the game so be it. If he is going to get ugly after handling it that way, just calmly send him to his room.

Good Night Coach!!!

As for disputing whether or not to go for help. Follow the rules and always get a strike or out anyway you can.

[NYBLUE]

Originally Posted by Fritz

Different scenario but curious as to how you would handle this -

2 man crew, I'm PU, partner in B with R1. Pitch comes in high and outside, batter starts a swing and checks. I have a clear view and call "no he did not, Ball!"

DC tells catch to have me appeal to my partner. Catch asks for an appeal and I respond to him and the coach "coach, my partner is in the middle of the field and doesn't have a better angle than I do."

As we settle in for the next pitch, Coach demands I ask for an appeal, says it is his right. I respond "Coach, I already explained why there is no point in doing so, let's play ball."

I would avoid saying that (bolded above) even though it's the truth.

It's simple....
If asked to appeal the check swing, do it.
Your partner should know well enough to go with your call if you sold your call well when you made your call. In addition, your partner knows he's not in the ideal position to see the check swing so unless he's absolutely certain you got it wrong, he should make the same call you made.

[PeteBooth]

[

QUOTE=Fritz]Different scenario but curious as to how you would handle this -

2 man crew, I'm PU, partner in B with R1. Pitch comes in high and outside, batter starts a swing and checks. I have a clear view and call "no he did not, Ball!"

Simply call the pitch a ball no need to add "No he didn't go". When you call the pitch a ball it is now OBVIOUS that he didn't go otherwise you would have called the pitch a strike.

On the flip side the PRO mechanic if you call the pitch a strike on a check swing is to point at the batter and indicate it is a strike. You can also add "he offered"

As others mentioned simply go to your partner. What's the BIG deal. It takes all of 10 seconds.

Personally I do not care what my partner calls. I trust his judgement and when I point to him I simply want him to give me what he's got plain and simple.

Also, with the exception of FED and some youth leagues, OBR / NCAA you MUST go. FWIW I do the same in a FED game.

Pete Booth

[jkumpire]

When I went to pro school in the Dark Ages, we were taught to say: "No he didn't" if you were the PU.

Is this a change in MLB or MiLB mechanics, or is that just your practice?

I personally like to say "No he didn't" since I am selling my check swing call, and maybe dropping by partner a hint on an appeal. A good partner will overrule me if I am wrong, so why worry? Selling my call with voice will save me and my partner trouble on occasion.

[bobbybanaduck]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

On the flip side the PRO mechanic if you call the pitch a strike on a check swing is to point at the batter and indicate it is a strike. You can also add "he offered"

the flip side of what? as is mentioned in the post above mine, the mechanic taught at the umpire schools (was and still) is, "ball, no he didn't go."

[canadaump6]

Is it acceptable to call time and approach your base partner to see if there was catcher's interference?

[RPatrino]

Sure, don't you call time on catcher's interference?? Lah me!!

[LMan]

Originally Posted by RPatrino

Sure, don't you call time on catcher's interference?? Lah me!!

Heh. I would love to see this in person.

[Dave Reed]

Originally Posted by LMan

Heh. I would love to see this in person.

Saw it last August at the !4U USSSA Elite 24 World Series , which is generally considered to be the biggest tournament of the year for this age group. Championship game, four man crew, the stadium at Disney Wide World of Sports, R2, R3, 2 outs. Catcher interferes, weak grounder to short, F6 throws to first, but first baseman has already walked away and B/R isn't running because time has been called-- by part of the crew.

It took 45 minutes to re-start the game, because the crew couldn't decide what to do. They did spend 10 minutes off the field, evidently in phone conversations. Ultimately they scored the two runners, and placed B/R at second base.

One good thing about talking 45 minutes to reach a decision: there was no comment of any kind from either team. They just resumed play.

[TxUmp]

Originally Posted by canadaump6

Is it acceptable to call time and approach your base partner to see if there was catcher's interference?

Why do we umpires persist in perpetuating this total misnomer? It is CATCHER OBSTRUCTION!! Not catcher interference.