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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 16, 2008, 02:27pm
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2-man mechanics

I've had this situation come up a few times the past week with the same partner. Everytime I end up getting burned on the situation. Now this will be discussed in the pre-game but I really thought it was a fluke the first time.

Here is the situation (FED):

R2 on second with a long fly ball him into the "Outfield V" (Center field on the right side of third). The BU has the catch/no catch call since the ball is in the "V". R2 tags up to advance to third base. Who has the possible play at third base? What is the proper rotation? Thanks

-Josh
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Old Mon Jun 16, 2008, 02:32pm
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Base umpire has tag at second and play at third. There is no rotation.
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Old Mon Jun 16, 2008, 03:05pm
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While I agree with Gordon, this is one of the mechanics that varies by area. So, do what others in your assoication /league do.
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Old Mon Jun 16, 2008, 03:14pm
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This situation has just happened recently so I haven't asked anyone in the association. I'll ask one of them tonight that I am working with. I was just curious what you all do. I guess I am the one getting burned because I am not covering properly. I was the BU both times this has happened and I assumed (I know, terrible word to use) the PU would rotate over the third. He did not, in both cases, and I made the call at third way out of position but I sold it well.

If I am the PU, I always rotate to third. Which I now realize is the wrong mechanic. Thanks for the clarification gentleman!

-Josh
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Old Mon Jun 16, 2008, 03:14pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins
While I agree with Gordon, this is one of the mechanics that varies by area. So, do what others in your assoication /league do.

How did it burn you?

Regardless of how many times I work with my regular partners, I'll give my partner on the plate the stop sign while communicating "I have it all."
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Old Mon Jun 16, 2008, 03:28pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichMSN
How did it burn you?

Regardless of how many times I work with my regular partners, I'll give my partner on the plate the stop sign while communicating "I have it all."
I say I got burned because I was still by second both times I made the call. After seeing my partner at home, I knew I had to make the call. I should say I was out of position. I know both times I made the correct call because the tag was missed *shew*

I am learning a lot this year since I'm not working with a regular partner. Before, I knew exactly where my partner was going to be.

-Josh
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Old Mon Jun 16, 2008, 03:42pm
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Josh, do you have 'pre-game' time with your partner? This is where you agree on what you will do in these situations. Generally, with R2 only, base ump has catch,tag up and advance into 3rd.

With R1 and R2, then things get a little dicey. I'm curious, how would you think this sitch should be handled? Assume a fly ball in the "V" and then assume a fly ball down the RF line (this is a quiz). LOL
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Old Tue Jun 17, 2008, 01:35am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichMSN
How did it burn you?

Regardless of how many times I work with my regular partners, I'll give my partner on the plate the stop sign while communicating "I have it all."
Same here. Communication is the key. Also discussing coverages throroughly in the pre-game can cut down on these embarrasing double coverages. With R2 only, the BU should be able to take all plays on R2 at 2nd and 3rd on a tag-up situation.

On a side note, I always found it a bit irritating when the guy who, as PU, insisted in always coming up the 3rd baseline to "help ya out" when he wasn't supposed to be there, is the same guy that is never there at 3rd base on a 1st to 3rd coverage when he is supposed to be. Never fails.
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Old Tue Jun 17, 2008, 08:13am
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Originally Posted by RPatrino
Josh, do you have 'pre-game' time with your partner? This is where you agree on what you will do in these situations. Generally, with R2 only, base ump has catch,tag up and advance into 3rd.

With R1 and R2, then things get a little dicey. I'm curious, how would you think this sitch should be handled? Assume a fly ball in the "V" and then assume a fly ball down the RF line (this is a quiz). LOL
Of course I had pre-game time. It just so happens this happened twice in the same game. I figured it was a misunderstanding the first time it happened so we had a little pow-wow between half innings (which I never do). We decided he would come up the line to help out if it's on the right side of second, but within the "V". Of course, the next time the exact situation happened, there was nobody there again. I was just curious what the mechanic actually is.

With a fly ball down the right field line, PU would take the catch and BU takes the tag-up at second and plays at 2nd and 3rd. That I always discuss in the pre-game. I guess I'm just going to have to add the other

Thanks gentleman!

-Josh
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Old Tue Jun 17, 2008, 09:03am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichMSN
How did it burn you?

Regardless of how many times I work with my regular partners, I'll give my partner on the plate the stop sign while communicating "I have it all."
The little things make all the difference. Even when discussing things in pre-game in the heat of battle often things are forgotten.

As Rich suggests, a simple stop sign will remind PU that I've got it. That simple communication helps no matter who the partner is.

As PU I always start moving towards third just in case BU forgets and then I am able to move and cover the play "after saying I've got third"

If BU is covering the play I can always move back and no one notices the difference.

In a perfect world, pre-game covers lots of things, but in the real world, letting someone know where you are going, are at etc., can cover a multitude of mistakes.

Especially when you happen to have a new or inexperienced partner.

Thanks
David
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Old Tue Jun 17, 2008, 09:08am
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Originally Posted by jdmara
I say I got burned because I was still by second both times I made the call. After seeing my partner at home, I knew I had to make the call. I should say I was out of position. I know both times I made the correct call because the tag was missed *shew*

I am learning a lot this year since I'm not working with a regular partner. Before, I knew exactly where my partner was going to be.

-Josh
Josh,
This is actually a very good question as bob jenkins said it can vary depending on where you are and the level of partner you have.

BU the book this is not a rotation play and the BU should have both plays. That being said I don't know how many times where I've been in this situation either as BU or PU and the PU take the play at third. The key is communication. As BU you should believe that both plays are yours until you hear from your partner he's got third. Once you hear he's taking third give him a quick glance and make sure he really is there then you can give up your responsibilities at third.

From the PU stand point that high fly ball in the V can put your partner in a situation where he doesn't have optimum coverage for a play at third. Read the play if you can be at third, then get there. You have no other responsibilities. Then communicate with your partner that you've got third and get an acknowledgement. The last thing you want and need is 2 people on one play.

While this is not an in the book rotation situation it is being a good partner. The key here is communication.
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Old Tue Jun 17, 2008, 10:07am
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Originally Posted by Emperor Ump
From the PU stand point that high fly ball in the V can put your partner in a situation where he doesn't have optimum coverage for a play at third. Read the play if you can be at third, then get there. You have no other responsibilities. Then communicate with your partner that you've got third and get an acknowledgement. The last thing you want and need is 2 people on one play.

While this is not an in the book rotation situation it is being a good partner. The key here is communication.
I'll second this.

I'll give another play:

R2. Less than 2 outs. Sinking line drive bringing F9 to his right and forward. Diving catch.

As the BU, I have to make the catch/no catch my primary responsibility. While the nature of the catch may make a subsequent play at third difficult, if I'm the plate umpire, I'm reading that my partner is likely out of position now (at the edge of the infield grass between first and second) to get a good angle and distance for the play at third. I'm coming up. I'm also going to be lining up the tag at second since I know that the BU will need to stay with the play to make sure there's a legal catch. Now, I won't poach an appeal, but I will be prepared if I'm asked by my partner to get involved.

Game and situation sense is pretty darned important and mechanics are designed to cover a majority of situations, but I think it's important to be flexible in situations and to be a good partner.
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Old Tue Jun 17, 2008, 10:15am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdmara

R2 on second with a long fly ball him into the "Outfield V" (Center field on the right side of third). The BU has the catch/no catch call since the ball is in the "V". R2 tags up to advance to third base. Who has the possible play at third base? What is the proper rotation? Thanks

-Josh
There is no rotation with R2 only. BU has it all.

Rotation comes into play with R2/R1, less than two out. Trying to change the standard rotation in a pregame is patchwork umpiring and will lead to getting burned.
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Old Tue Jun 17, 2008, 10:40am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrUmpire
There is no rotation with R2 only. BU has it all.

Rotation comes into play with R2/R1, less than two out. Trying to change the standard rotation in a pregame is patchwork umpiring and will lead to getting burned.
That sounds good in theory but is not the key, read Rich's post above.

Flexibility is the key, and you will not get burned when you communicate.

Thanks
David
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Old Tue Jun 17, 2008, 12:01pm
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Originally Posted by David B
That sounds good in theory but is not the key, read Rich's post above.

Flexibility is the key, and you will not get burned when you communicate.

Thanks
David
While at times this may be correct, I don't believe this is one.

A play as simple and strightforward as the OP should be handled in standard fashion. If you have to deviate for a play like that you must be doing cartwheels and the dirty Sanchez on a truly surprising or complicated play.
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