Standoff at third - Page 2

ozzy6900 · #16 (**permalink**) Fri May 30, 2008, 07:45am

Stay right where you are and hail the jerk coach at 3rd base, "Hey coach, would you mind getting me a chair so I can relax while these gentlemen continue this?" I guarantee you, that the nonsense will cease!

Just one of the reasons I do not do "kiddie ball"!

Rufus · #17 (**permalink**) Fri May 30, 2008, 10:55am

As the pitcher's coach would it be ok to instruct the pitcher to request time once he has control of the ball and the runner is back on the bag? That's how we resolved this "issue" a few seasons ago and it seemed to work well but I couldn't tell you if this is/was a good way to proceed.

BigUmp56 · #18 (**permalink**) Fri May 30, 2008, 11:01am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rufus

As the pitcher's coach would it be ok to instruct the pitcher to request time once he has control of the ball and the runner is back on the bag? That's how we resolved this "issue" a few seasons ago and it seemed to work well but I couldn't tell you if this is/was a good way to proceed.

We're not the tenth player on defense as officials, so no, I wouldn't grant the coach time to allow his pitcher to return to the mound. What the defensive coach should be doing is teaching his pitchers to not turn their backs on the runner on their way back to the mound. If they've got the coordination to pitch a baseball, they certainly have the coordination to walk backwards toward the mound while holding the runner.

Tim.

danreeves1973 · #19 (**permalink**) Fri May 30, 2008, 11:11am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

We're not the tenth player on defense as officials, so no, I wouldn't grant the coach time to allow his pitcher to return to the mound. What the defensive coach should be doing is teaching his pitchers to not turn their backs on the runner on their way back to the mound. If they've got the coordination to pitch a baseball, they certainly have the coordination to walk backwards toward the mound while holding the runner.

Tim.

THANK YOU!!!

I have mentioned this idea to probably four or five coaches over the past three years and always get this blank stare as they try and process the idea of a player walking backwards.

BigUmp56 · #20 (**permalink**) Fri May 30, 2008, 11:24am

It surprises me that you're seeing this at the 12 year old level, Dan. When I worked a lot of youth ball I didn't see this at that level. It was the 9U kids that were constantly doing it. By age 12 they should have learned how to defend against it.

Tim.

youngump · #21 (**permalink**) Fri May 30, 2008, 11:51am

Why not just hand the ball to the third baseman?
________
ROLL A JOINT

Rich Ives · #22 (**permalink**) Fri May 30, 2008, 12:39pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngump

Why not just hand the ball to the third baseman?

You mean do something that's really obvious?

Coaches in LL minors are usually really new at coaching. Combine this with their not understanding 7.13 (the no-leadoff rule) and you get really strange activity.

BigUmp56 · #23 (**permalink**) Fri May 30, 2008, 01:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngump

Why not just hand the ball to the third baseman?

Because if the pitcher does, the third baseman will have to throw the ball back to the mound. At that age, and more pertinent with the inexperienced coaching, every time the ball is thrown from one fielder to another there's a good chance the ball will be misplayed. I understand what Rich was saying about 7.13, but remember, this thread began discussing USSSA 12U where there is no prohibition on lead offs.

Tim.

danreeves1973 · #24 (**permalink**) Fri May 30, 2008, 01:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

Because if the pitcher does, the third baseman will have to throw the ball back to the mound. At that age, and more pertinent with the inexperienced coaching, every time the ball is thrown from one fielder to another there's a good chance the ball will be misplayed. I understand what Rich was saying about 7.13, but remember, this thread began discussing USSSA 12U where there is no prohibition on lead offs.

Tim.

actually Dixie has a 7.13, not sure if it's exactly the same as LL's, but it does prohibit leading off. Once pitcher has the ball on the rubber, catcher is in position, runners must be on their bases.

sorry if my misclarification caused any confusion.

BigUmp56 · #25 (**permalink**) Fri May 30, 2008, 01:37pm

My bad, Dan. For some reason I thought we were discussing USSSA. I should have gone back and checked the first page of the thread. It wouldn't change what I was talking about though. All the runner has to do is show he's making an attempt to advance while the ball is on it's way back to the pitcher, and he cannot be forced back to the bag just because the battery is set. I looked at it this way when I coached my sons in minors. The defense has to execute several things to be successful in getting the runner out. They have to throw the ball twice, catch the ball twice, and execute a tag. The runner just has to book home and slide......

Tim.

danreeves1973 · #26 (**permalink**) Fri May 30, 2008, 01:41pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

My bad, Dan. For some reason I thought we were discussing USSSA. I should have gone back and checked the first page of the thread. It wouldn't change what I was talking about though. All the runner has to do is show he's making an attempt to advance while the ball is on it's way back to the pitcher, and he cannot be forced back to the bag just because the battery is set. I looked at it this way when I coached my sons in minors. The defense has to execute several things to be successful in getting the runner out. They have to throw the ball twice, catch the ball twice, and execute a tag. The runner just has to book home and slide......

Tim.

correct me if I'm wrong cause I want to make sure I got this right, but as long as he makes no stop, no pause going from 3rd to home, even if the battery is set, he does not have to return. BUT, if he stops, send him back to 3rd.

BigUmp56 · #27 (**permalink**) Fri May 30, 2008, 02:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by danreeves1973

correct me if I'm wrong cause I want to make sure I got this right, but as long as he makes no stop, no pause going from 3rd to home, even if the battery is set, he does not have to return. BUT, if he stops, send him back to 3rd.

I'm not sure about Dixie, Dan. LL say that as long as a runner is "legitimately" off of his base the pitcher cannot stop him by returning the ball to the rubber. This leaves it to our judgment as to whether the runner is legitimately making an attempt to advance, or just stalling to bait a bad throw. If it's the latter of the two I would return the runner, or he'd be at risk of a 7.13 violation.

Tim.

tidefanintenn · #28 (**permalink**) Sun Jun 01, 2008, 10:21pm

I had this coach that is always coming up with the best ways to handle any situation.

Here's what he had his kids do. After the pitch he had the catcher step up to the plate and check the runner. The pitcher immediately returned to the rubber and got ready to receive the throw back. The catcher once he had the runner in the standoff with no attempt either way, he would give a good crisp throw back to the pitcher who was in contact with the rubber. As soon as he caught it the runners were returning because they were not making an attempt rather just standing there trying to draw a throw.

I also have a partner that will always give the defense the benefit of the doubt if they execute everything and it is aplay that could go either way. That ussually slows the offensive coach down a little.

Dixie's rule returns the runner if he is not making a valid attempt to advance. Otherwise the pitcher does not stop continuous play by running to the rubber.