Standoff at third

[danreeves1973]

12U league, Dixie league Rules, which are modified OBR.

Ball hit to right field, bobbled, runner has wheels, makes it to third and starts to advance as throw comes in. Pitcher gets the ball and walks him back. Third base coach is telling his guy to go every time the pitcher starts to move back toward the mound, pitcher finally camps out in the third base line, five-ten ft away, ball in glove ready to tag.

My question: any rule I can use to break this standoff? I've looked and cannot find one. Runner was not going to simply stay and let pitcher return, pitcher was not going to let runner move and I'm not going to let us stand here all night. I'm also not going to coach the pitcher and catcher on how to handle this.

I solved it after about 20 seconds by calling time, pulled both coaches to the middle of the field and told them I was not going to let them turn this into a "mockery of a game" and if a standoff occured I was killing it from this point on. They said fine and we went on. I would just like to know if i solved it right and if not, what is the best way to handle this?

Flame away...

[RPatrino]

I would simply say, "knock it off guys, lets go". The same thing happens when a fielder at a base won't let a runner who just slid in get up. I just say, "let him up".. and we go on. We don't let the players run the game, we do.

[TussAgee11]

After a "let's go" was ignored, perhaps I'm finding time to go clean the plate (lets not hash that debate out again). How about changing out that ball, there is a good solution. Had a hard time picking that last one up, here you go pitch!

I don't mind the way you handled it though... as long as that convo with the coaches was short and sweet and they didn't get a chance to interject.

[danreeves1973]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

After a "let's go" was ignored, perhaps I'm finding time to go clean the plate (lets not hash that debate out again). How about changing out that ball, there is a good solution. Had a hard time picking that last one up, here you go pitch!

I don't mind the way you handled it though... as long as that convo with the coaches was short and sweet and they didn't get a chance to interject.

Conversation was short, sweet, and gave no room for arguing. Both coaches had already been told "thats enough" on earlier bang-bang calls they disagreed with. The earlier stuff had not got to the point of being tossed and since this is a youth league i really don't want to toss unless it's just aggregious and rankly stupid.

but back to my first question. Besides a broad interpritation on 9.01 (c), is there any rule pertaining to a standoff with a lead runner like this?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by danreeves1973

12U league, Dixie league Rules, which are modified OBR.

Ball hit to right field, bobbled, runner has wheels, makes it to third and starts to advance as throw comes in. Pitcher gets the ball and walks him back. Third base coach is telling his guy to go every time the pitcher starts to move back toward the mound, pitcher finally camps out in the third base line, five-ten ft away, ball in glove ready to tag.

My question: any rule I can use to break this standoff? I've looked and cannot find one. Runner was not going to simply stay and let pitcher return, pitcher was not going to let runner move and I'm not going to let us stand here all night. I'm also not going to coach the pitcher and catcher on how to handle this.

I solved it after about 20 seconds by calling time, pulled both coaches to the middle of the field and told them I was not going to let them turn this into a "mockery of a game" and if a standoff occured I was killing it from this point on. They said fine and we went on. I would just like to know if i solved it right and if not, what is the best way to handle this?

Flame away...

The worst think you could have done was to call time and tell the coaches that you weren't going to let them turn this into a "mockery of a game." The word "mockery" in the rules book refers to running the bases in reverse order. What the pitcher and runner were doing may have been exsaperating to you but it was legal. The ball was live and the runner was trying to advance while the pitcher was trying to keeping him from advancing. It was especially wrong to call time when the base runner was not in contact with third base: runner off base with a live ball, do not call time for any reason except a possible injury or the ball becoming dead because a play made it become dead.

MTD, Sr.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

The worst think you could have done was to call time and tell the coaches that you weren't going to let them turn this into a "mockery of a game." The word "mockery" in the rules book refers to running the bases in reverse order. What the pitcher and runner were doing may have been exsaperating to you but it was legal. The ball was live and the runner was trying to advance while the pitcher was trying to keeping him from advancing. It was especially wrong to call time when the base runner was not in contact with third base: runner off base with a live ball, do not call time for any reason except a possible injury or the ball becoming dead because a play made it become dead.

MTD, Sr.

The word in the book is "travesty," not "mockery."

[danreeves1973]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

The worst think you could have done was to call time and tell the coaches that you weren't going to let them turn this into a "mockery of a game." The word "mockery" in the rules book refers to running the bases in reverse order. What the pitcher and runner were doing may have been exsaperating to you but it was legal. The ball was live and the runner was trying to advance while the pitcher was trying to keeping him from advancing. It was especially wrong to call time when the base runner was not in contact with third base: runner off base with a live ball, do not call time for any reason except a possible injury or the ball becoming dead because a play made it become dead.

MTD, Sr.

I understand your point about not killing a play or calling time unless needed and agree. In my case the runner was on third, he was standing on the base. Had he been off base, or had F1 been trying to throw to F5 who's behind third or trying to tag the runner, I'm letting it play out.

Runner was on base, going to move IF F1 turns to go to the mound. F1 is 5 ft away down the baseline, ball in hand, refusing to move. We could have quite literally stood there till time ran out since home team was batting.

As for why I said mockery, it had nothing to do with the wording in 7.08 (i), which is actually "travesty" I was trying to get across the idea that I was not going to let them do things I felt were to delay or prolong the game.

[Rcichon]

Originally Posted by danreeves1973

......clipped......We could have quite literally stood there till time ran out since home team was batting.

....

And this is bad...why?

[danreeves1973]

Originally Posted by Rcichon

And this is bad...why?

standing would have made us easier targets for the mosquitoes we were fighting with as it was. 9y/o outfielder almost got toted off by them.

[tidefanintenn]

danreeves1973,

I also do a lot of Dixie games and see this a lot. If it starts getting out of hand when the runner goes back to the bag we (being me or one of my partners) kill the play so that we can brush off the plate or adjust our gear. I actually had a coach try and argue with me that I could not call time just to stop this type of play. I explained to him that we need to keep the game moving as we we under a time limit. Never heard another word from him all year when we kill it.

[briancurtin]

Originally Posted by danreeves1973

We could have quite literally stood there till time ran out since home team was batting.

call a 3 second violation, and if they don't cut it out, T someone up.

[danreeves1973]

Originally Posted by briancurtin

call a 3 second violation, and if they don't cut it out, T someone up.

considered calling holding or delay of game, backing the runner back 10 yrds, but we have instant replay so i would have gotten ripped on that

[PeteBooth]

Mark IMO you are missing the point. The PROFESSIONAL rules of baseball did not have 12 yr. olds in mind when they wrote the rules.

MLB alows "other' leagues to borrow their rules.

However, IMO the rules should then be modified to fit THEIR game. The "cat and mouse" game simply delays the game.

If a runner wants to advance then no problem advance but this "dancing" stuff needs to be stopped. The one rule that should be adopted for these "rug rag" divisions that would put a stop to this nonsense is this:

You either advance or retreat Once you start "dancing" then immediate dead ball runner out and other runners return to their TOP bases.

The point becomes moot once you hit the BIG diamond.

Now I know why TEE dislikes Kiddie ball.

Pete Booth