Fpsr

[thumpferee]

I was looking for a thread on this subject but couldn't find it. It was an interp from FED on FPSR when runner is out at 2nd base where the force was removed so two outs could not be called. Or something like that.

Sit. R1, less than two outs. GB to F6 who throws to F4, throw pulls him off the bag toward LC, R1 is ruled safe but slides through the bag and contacts F4 as he is throwing to 1st.

Any help on this would be appreciated!

[bob jenkins]

If the initial contact was beyond the bag, then the slide is illegal and both R1 and BR are out.

If the initial contact was on / over the bag, then the slide is legal (even if the slide and/or the contact continues beyond the bag).

[thumpferee]

Thanks Bob.

I found where I read it. 06 BRD, pg. 201 Play 173-320 and note 304.

But Play 170-320 seems to contradict this.

Thoughts?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by thumpferee

Thanks Bob.

I found where I read it. 06 BRD, pg. 201 Play 173-320 and note 304.

But Play 170-320 seems to contradict this.

Thoughts?

Since I don't have that BRD, nor any BRD handy, I'd need to have the plays posted.

Also, it may have been last year where the rule was changed to read "slides past the base AND THEN makes contact with the fielder" (paraphrased)

[thumpferee]

Play 170-320: FED only. R1 moving on the pitch: B1 hits to the SS, who tries-not in time- for the out at 2nd. The 2nd baseman throws the ball to 1st, after which R1 pops-up on the base, jostling the fielder. Ruling. Though the contact occurred after the throw and did not alter the play, it resulted from an illegal slide: Both R1 and B1 are out.

Play 173-320: NCAA only. R1 stealing: B1 grounds slowly to F6, whose throw to 2nd is not in time. R1 then executes a pop-up slide, preventing the 2nd baseman from throwing to 1st. Ruling. Both R1 and B1 are out.

Note 304: In play 173-320 under FED and OBR rules B1 would also be out, but B1 would go to 1st. Since R1 beat the throw, no DP is possible. Hence, in those codes only the interfering runner can be out. It's simply interference by a runner (one out), not a retired runner (two out).

[jdmara]

Under this year's interpretation, I would call both the R1 and BR out. I think it's pretty well defined that if there is an illegal slide, both are out. The NFHS no longer relies on the judgment of the umpire to determine whether it was likely a throw would have retired BR at first, it's automatic.

-Josh

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by thumpferee

Play 170-320: FED only. R1 moving on the pitch: B1 hits to the SS, who tries-not in time- for the out at 2nd. The 2nd baseman throws the ball to 1st, after which R1 pops-up on the base, jostling the fielder. Ruling. Though the contact occurred after the throw and did not alter the play, it resulted from an illegal slide: Both R1 and B1 are out.

Play 173-320: NCAA only. R1 stealing: B1 grounds slowly to F6, whose throw to 2nd is not in time. R1 then executes a pop-up slide, preventing the 2nd baseman from throwing to 1st. Ruling. Both R1 and B1 are out.

Note 304: In play 173-320 under FED and OBR rules B1 would also be out, but B1 would go to 1st. Since R1 beat the throw, no DP is possible. Hence, in those codes only the interfering runner can be out. It's simply interference by a runner (one out), not a retired runner (two out).

I agree with the first play (170-320) -- and, FWIW, I'd have the same ruling in NCAA.

The NCAA ruling on the second play (173-320) has been changed, I think -- it's only interference if the pop-up slide is "into the fielder" -- and I don't read that in the play.

I definitely disagree with the FED part of Note 304, but agree with the OBR part.

[tcarilli]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The NCAA ruling on the second play (173-320) has been changed, I think -- it's only interference if the pop-up slide is "into the fielder" -- and I don't read that in the play.

You are correct on the first count, ie, the NCAA rule has changed, but incorrect on the second count. Below I reproduce 8-4-b from the NCAA rule book.

Rule 8
Force-Play-Slide Rule
SECTION 4.
b. Contact with a fielder is legal and interference shall not be called if the runner makes a legal slide directly to the base and in the baseline extended (see diagram).
A.R.—If contact occurs on top of the base as a result of a “pop-up” slide, this contact is legal.

[charliej47]

b. does not legally slide and causes illegal contact and/or illegally alters the actions of a fielder in the immediate act of making a play, or on a force play, does not slide in a direct line between the bases; or PENALTY: The runner is out, the ball is dead immediately, and interference is called. On a force-play slide with less than two outs, the runner is declared out, as well as the batter-runner. Runners shall return to the bases occupied at the time of the pitch. With two outs, the runner is declared out. The batter is credited with a fielder’s choice.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by tcarilli

You are correct on the first count, ie, the NCAA rule has changed, but incorrect on the second count. Below I reproduce 8-4-b from the NCAA rule book.

Rule 8
Force-Play-Slide Rule
SECTION 4.
b. Contact with a fielder is legal and interference shall not be called if the runner makes a legal slide directly to the base and in the baseline extended (see diagram).
A.R.—If contact occurs on top of the base as a result of a “pop-up” slide, this contact is legal.

Yeah -- I don't know what the heck I was thinking / posting.