Pitching Mechanics

[UES]

There was a you tube video demonstrating a unique pitching style that showed a kid who pushed off the rubber so hard, it almost looked like he launched himself 6-8 ft in FRONT of the rubber as he delivered the pitch. I think it was a way to gain more power behind the pitch but it was discussed at length on this site as possibly being an illegal pitching motion. Does anybody remember this discussion and/or can help me find that You Tube video? Any assistance would be greatly appreciated!!!

[dash_riprock]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAviGQNvJrE&NR=1

[mbyron]

Other than his hands being too high, I see nothing illegal about it. Mound might be too high. I don't remember this video or any significant discussion of it here.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Other than his hands being too high, I see nothing illegal about it. Mound might be too high. I don't remember this video or any significant discussion of it here.

There was a huge discussion, but I don't remember at which site.

Some thought it OK.

Some thought (I'm one) that if you look closely that the pivot foots hits (a puff of dust and a scuff mark seem to be there) out in front of the rubber before he throws.

Some thought it violates the requirement to pitch while in contact.

I think the hands are too high for FED but OK for OBR.

[UES]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

There was a huge discussion, but I don't remember at which site.
Some thought it OK.
Some thought (I'm one) that if you look closely that the pivot foots hits (a puff of dust and a scuff mark seem to be there) out in front of the rubber before he throws.
Some thought it violates the requirement to pitch while in contact.
I think the hands are too high for FED but OK for OBR.

Thanks Dash for the link! Rich, if you find what site the discussion took place, I would appreciate a link.

The purpose of this is not the hand positioning, but where the pivot foot is at the time of the release and also how much closer the pitcher ends up towards the plate in comparison to a conventional stride.

This issue came recently came up in an NCAA game and caused a pretty big sh!t house as to whether it is legal by rule ... considering the pivot foot not being in contact with the rubber and/or is the pitcher gaining an illegal advantage because he is "significantly" closer to the plate at the time of the release.

Law Ump, Squeaky, Hickman and the rest of you - I would be interested in hearing your interpretation of this rule as it relates for NCAA and OBR only

Please refer to this link (below) as well. Its the same video but slowed down at 10% of normal speed. Notice, there are two landing marks - one that looks to be where the conventional stride lands and the second, of course, is where the pitcher lands using this unique style

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaTQ7...eature=related

[David B]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

There was a huge discussion, but I don't remember at which site.

Some thought it OK.

Some thought (I'm one) that if you look closely that the pivot foots hits (a puff of dust and a scuff mark seem to be there) out in front of the rubber before he throws.

Some thought it violates the requirement to pitch while in contact.

I think the hands are too high for FED but OK for OBR.

Agreed,

Every power pitcher leaves the rubber before he actually pitches the ball, its almost impossible not to so don't see what's the problem.

Rule wise covered under TOP.

Thanks
David

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by David B

Agreed,

Every power pitcher leaves the rubber before he actually pitches the ball, its almost impossible not to so don't see what's the problem.

Rule wise covered under TOP.

Thanks
David

Yep - but not by several feet, and it's not just the power pitchers. There's a natural pull-off due to the body twist but the question is whether the deliberate leap should be considered OK.

Secondly, IF he is touching down with the pivot foot before pitching (as some think) shouldn't that be balked? Would the touch-down be considered a step with the pivot foot?

I can't comprehend how he can command a pitch using the method anyhow. Apparently some can but I don't think the majority of pitchers could.

[UES]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Yep - but not by several feet, and it's not just the power pitchers. There's a natural pull-off due to the body twist but the question is whether the deliberate leap should be considered OK.

Secondly, IF he is touching down with the pivot foot before pitching (as some think) shouldn't that be balked? Would the touch-down be considered a step with the pivot foot?

I can't comprehend how he can command a pitch using the method anyhow. Apparently some can but I don't think the majority of pitchers could.

David & Rich,

Great replys - I think we're getting somewhere here. As you guys stated, all pitcher's lose contact with the pitcher's plate at the time of release - it's just natural because of the way the body is moving. The question I feel we need to ask ourselves is this....

What is the origin of the rule behind "being in contact with the pitcher's plate" (ie, why was it put in the rule book) and how is that rule interpreted on the playing field?

Personally, I feel that the rule about being in contact with the pitcher's plate was put in so that all pitchers start (or pitch) from the same distance away from the plate (60 ft 6 in) or somewhere relatively close to that measurement considering human physics.

With that said, I don't think anyone envisioned a pitcher "launching" himself off of the rubber and then releasing the ball which puts himself much closer to the plate vs the traditional/normal stride of 99.9% of pitchers. Thus, is this unique delivery creating an unfair advantage and goes against the spirit for which the rule was originally intended for?

[socalblue1]

Originally Posted by UES

Thanks Dash for the link! Rich, if you find what site the discussion took place, I would appreciate a link.

The purpose of this is not the hand positioning, but where the pivot foot is at the time of the release and also how much closer the pitcher ends up towards the plate in comparison to a conventional stride.

This issue came recently came up in an NCAA game and caused a pretty big sh!t house as to whether it is legal by rule ... considering the pivot foot not being in contact with the rubber and/or is the pitcher gaining an illegal advantage because he is "significantly" closer to the plate at the time of the release.

Law Ump, Squeaky, Hickman and the rest of you - I would be interested in hearing your interpretation of this rule as it relates for NCAA and OBR only

Please refer to this link (below) as well. Its the same video but slowed down at 10% of normal speed. Notice, there are two landing marks - one that looks to be where the conventional stride lands and the second, of course, is where the pitcher lands using this unique style

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaTQ7...eature=related

IMO this is clearly a balk. This kid leaps, replants then releases the pitch. The give away is the bringing the free foot high in the air and leaping forward. Pivot foot makes contact a second time and provides leverage before free foot touches the ground, thus illegal pitch.

this motion is NOT the same as dragging the pivot foot - it's a clear attempt at moving the mound several feet closer to HP.

[dash_riprock]

A replant is a balk but I can see an argument that this is not a replant. I don't see a second push off the pivot foot.

Suppose his pivot foot comes off the rubber, but never touches the ground until after the ball is released. Is he allowed to jump as far as he can? If not, where is the balk/no balk line?

[Dave Reed]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

Suppose his pivot foot comes off the rubber, but never touches the ground until after the ball is released. Is he allowed to jump as far as he can? If not, where is the balk/no balk line?

In my view, a pitcher must contact the ground with his stride foot, and begin transferring weight to it, before his pivot foot can lose contact with the rubber. Otherwise he is stepping off towards the plate.

[DG]

Originally Posted by Dave Reed

In my view, a pitcher must contact the ground with his stride foot, and begin transferring weight to it, before his pivot foot can lose contact with the rubber. Otherwise he is stepping off towards the plate.

I see no basis in rule for this view. I believe if pitcher is in contact with the rubber at TOP he has met his requirement.

The glove is above the chin so this is a "technical" balk in FED.

It is hard to imagine this pitcher being very successful with this delivery.