Batting out of order

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by UMP25

Never ever do anything on your own when someone bats out of order! It's up to the defense to appeal it or the offense to realize and (possibly) correct their error.

Right. In my situation, the O-coach came to me and told me that there was a problem. At that point, I enforced the rule, given the situation.

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by tjones1

I see your point mbyron. But if the defense wants an out, wouldn't they want the batter batting out of order to complete the bat and then appeal?

It depends.

Suppose there is 2 outs and the number 9 batter was hitting in the number 8
batter's slot.

The Defensive manager might say something before the AB is complete so that the number 8 batter completes the TAB and instead of having the number 1 hitter leadoff the next inning the number 9 hitter would lead off the next inning - Could be a BIG difference.

The answers to these type questions depend upon many factors. Score of game who is at the plate who follows the correct batter etc.

If the clean-up hitter is up then I agree the DM would most likely keep quiet.

Pete Booth

[Blue37]

Originally Posted by tjones1

I agree that if the O-coach comes up that we should correct it.

But the O coach said nothing about B2 being out-of-order. He only brought up B3. By pointing out that B4 should be at bat, the comment in 6.07 was violated.

Rule 6.07 Comment: The umpire shall not direct the attention of any person to the presence in the batter’s box of an improper batter. This rule is designed to require constant vigilance by the players and managers of both teams.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Blue37

But the O coach said nothing about B2 being out-of-order. He only brought up B3. By pointing out that B4 should be at bat, the comment in 6.07 was violated.

Rule 6.07 Comment: The umpire shall not direct the attention of any person to the presence in the batter’s box of an improper batter. This rule is designed to require constant vigilance by the players and managers of both teams.

I would not interpet the written rule that literally. Once anything about the batting order is questioned, get it all fixed.

[UMP25]

That's a good interpretation of the rule and comment, Bob. The comment primarily directs umpires to not point out batting out of order before anyone even hints at it. When the offense initiates a discussion about it directly or indirectly, the umpire is permitted to get clarity on what's being done, even mentioning to the offensive manager that so-and-so should be up to bat. This isn't done, BTW, by yelling over to the defensive coach, "Hey, John! Bill here has the wrong batter up to bat so I'm telling him what to do."

[Jay R]

[QUOTE=PeteBooth]

It depends.

Suppose there is 2 outs and the number 9 batter was hitting in the number 8
batter's slot.

The Defensive manager might say something before the AB is complete so that the number 8 batter completes the TAB and instead of having the number 1 hitter leadoff the next inning the number 9 hitter would lead off the next inning - Could be a BIG difference.

The answers to these type questions depend upon many factors. Score of game who is at the plate who follows the correct batter etc.

If the clean-up hitter is up then I agree the DM would most likely keep quiet.

Pete Booth

Pete,

If I was managing in that situation, I'd let the #9 hitter complete his at bat and then appeal. This would make the proper batter (#8) out. The #9 batter would lead off next inning.

[DG]

As a defensive strategy you always want to the let the BOO batter bat. You have an out one way or another, but what if he hits into a double play? You let that ride and see if the next batter is the one that is supposed to follow the one that just batted. If not let him bat too and you will get a third out after he is done by bringing up that he is not the correct batter.

Last year I was BU in a game where a guy batted out of order and grounded out. Offensive coach came out before the next pitch and told my partner he had batted out of order so my partner calls the correct batter out. Defensive coach comes out and says he will take the out instead. My partner calls me over and after brief discussion we let the out stand and the next batter was the one who followed the guy who just grounded out. Since defensive guy did not bring it up he was willing to take the out. Maybe the better hitter had been skipped, or maybe he was hoping for another out when the batter who followed the incorrect batter was not the correct batter.

[Forest Ump]

DG, was your reasoning for letting the out stand due to the defense not appealling the BOO? The reasoning being that only the defense can appeal. Absent that you have nothing. Is that right?

Before I read that, I thought that once it was brought up either by the defense or offense you would be obligated to make it correct.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by DG

You have an out one way or another, but what if he hits into a double play? You let that ride and see if the next batter is the one that is supposed to follow the one that just batted. If not let him bat too and you will get a third out after he is done by bringing up that he is not the correct batter.

The double play would stand in Fed, not in OBR (not sure about NCAA). In OBR, you would declare the proper batter out and put the runners back on base. Source: The PUBC Umpire Manual, Pg. 13-15

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by DG

Last year I was BU in a game where a guy batted out of order and grounded out. Offensive coach came out before the next pitch and told my partner he had batted out of order so my partner calls the correct batter out. Defensive coach comes out and says he will take the out instead. My partner calls me over and after brief discussion we let the out stand and the next batter was the one who followed the guy who just grounded out. Since defensive guy did not bring it up he was willing to take the out. Maybe the better hitter had been skipped, or maybe he was hoping for another out when the batter who followed the incorrect batter was not the correct batter.

You what? How can you allow the play to stand when the defense brings up BOO? If the defense brings it up, you've got to make the BOO ruling. There is no option of taking the play or penalty. This isn't a catcher's interference or defaced ball pitch here (OBR option plays).

[UmpJM]

UMP25,

If I'm reading DG's post correctly, it was the Offensive Coach who brought it up, after his improper batter had (unsuccessfully) completed his at bat.

The defensive coach said let it stand. Since he didn't bring it up, I believe the umpire's in DG's sitch ruled correctly in letting the play stand.

JM

[mbyron]

JM, I believe that the point is that this is not a play where there is any choice (by either coach). Once BOO is brought to the attention of the umpire by either team, the umpire must rectify it according to the rule. This rectification will take different forms depending on the situation (a pitch thrown to the next batter or not, etc.). Nowhere is there scope for choosing to take the play, as in catcher's interference.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by mbyron

JM, I believe that the point is that this is not a play where there is any choice (by either coach). Once BOO is brought to the attention of the umpire by either team, the umpire must rectify it according to the rule. This rectification will take different forms depending on the situation (a pitch thrown to the next batter or not, etc.). Nowhere is there scope for choosing to take the play, as in catcher's interference.

I agree that there's no "choice" once teh BOO has been appealed. But, once the batter has completed his turn at bat only the defense may appeal. So, if the offense comes out and says "that batter was improper", I'm giving the defense every chance to NOT appeal it (which has the effect of lettign the play stand).

[UMP25]

I agree with Mr. Jenkins. That was my implication to begin with.

[DG]

Originally Posted by mbyron

JM, I believe that the point is that this is not a play where there is any choice (by either coach). Once BOO is brought to the attention of the umpire by either team, the umpire must rectify it according to the rule. This rectification will take different forms depending on the situation (a pitch thrown to the next batter or not, etc.). Nowhere is there scope for choosing to take the play, as in catcher's interference.

Only the defense can appeal BOO after the at bat is over. Since the defense coach did not he is choosing to take the play by not appealing BOO.