Play at plate video

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by chuckfan1

Handling ejections should always be a part of the pregame. Though it might be rare, if and when it does happen, shouldnt we want it to go as smooth as possible, as in everything else we do? ala an "Infield Fly" rotation?

I disagree. I do not go over Ej's with my partner. There is too much other more important information to cover.

Also, by going over Ej's means that in effect you will be looking for some.

IMO, the BU did what he was supposed to. He allowed his partner the respect he deserves in handling the situation. When the argument escalated he then stepped in and escorted the manager away.

The bottom line is this:

The PU was out of position.

He could have either asked for help which he didn't or "eat" the call which he did.

The coach was upset, had his say and then got himself ejected by "taking it to the next level"

I agree with Garth in that at the moment the EJ occurs we stop listening. The coach already had his say, now it's time for the coach to leave and get on with the game.

The coach got "hot under the collar" at the PU and the BU stepped in and got the coach to leave.

Lesson to be learned: Positioning Positioning Positioning. Also, even though we kick a call does not give the coach "carte blanche" to say and do anything he wants.

Side Note and off topic a bit: Depending upon one's area most HS coaches are also teachers. A teacher in addition to being an educator should also teach his students how to prepare for life. We all know Life isn't fair, however, these same coaches do not take that advice out onto the ball field. It seems as though they turn into Dr. Jeckle and Mr. Hyde.

Pete Booth

[David B]

Originally Posted by chuckfan1

Yeeesh....figured, theres always gotta be someone.....
Anyways...wasnt commenting on that specifically.The mention of the Infield Fly sitch was just an example of things we cover in pregame. Not the overall point of the post.
As in...."Ok BU guy...In an infield fly situation, and a fly ball to the outfield, I will rotate up to 3rd if R2 tags and goes..."
And then...."Ok BU guy...probably wont happen, but in case we have an ejection, lets handle it this way...." etc.
Trying to emphasize that ejections probably should be covered in the pregame. In working with a few D1 guys....they always cover it.

Its covered, but that takes all of 15 seconds. If we do have a problem with a coach and ejection, the non-ejecting coach can make sure the coach leaves quickly etc.,

If I'm PU, after the ejection, I'm not paying attention to the coach anyway, that gives me time to write it down for the report.

Thanks
David

[bossman72]

Sort of off topic, but everyone is in agreement that the coach deserved to get tossed for demonstrating, right?

[mbyron]

I think that the crew in the video screwed up so badly that it's pointless to debate whether to toss this coach.

But to answer the question you could have asked, I agree with the general principle that coaches who come out to argue and start demonstrating rather than discussing deserve to be run.

[RPatrino]

Does anyone know what level of play this is?

[CO ump]

Originally Posted by mbyron

I think that the crew in the video screwed up so badly that it's pointless to debate whether to toss this coach.

Did you mean crew or UIC? Prior to ejection I see nothing wrong with BU actions.
Some say he should have been closer during the confrontation but I disagree.
On the audio we kept hearing everyone yelling to check with the other umpire and I'm sure the coach was asking for that as well. If BU came in closer it would give the appearance that either he wanted to say something or would fuel the fire even more if BU was so close and UIC still did not ask for help. In this situation I think the BU was very discerning.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by CO ump

Did you mean crew or UIC? Prior to ejection I see nothing wrong with BU actions.
Some say he should have been closer during the confrontation but I disagree.
On the audio we kept hearing everyone yelling to check with the other umpire and I'm sure the coach was asking for that as well. If BU came in closer it would give the appearance that either he wanted to say something or would fuel the fire even more if BU was so close and UIC still did not ask for help. In this situation I think the BU was very discerning.

When the chant "get some help" started, BU turned and headed for his position in short right-field. Around here, that's a sign for "I got nothing to help you."

My crticism of BU would center on his technique of herding the coach off the field. I think it was more than what was required and looked somewhat comical.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by GarthB

When the chant "get some help" started, BU turned and headed for his position in short right-field. Around here, that's a sign for "I got nothing to help you."

My crticism of BU would center on his technique of herding the coach off the field. I think it was more than what was required and looked somewhat comical.

I agree. It started out well (he came in when PU turned away), but went too far (once the coach went past the foul line, or so, BU should have stayed put (to stop the coach from returning) and just watched him leave).

If I were BU and IF I saw the ball on the ground (with no signal from PU that he saw it too), I would have come in immediately.

[CO ump]

Originally Posted by GarthB

My crticism of BU would center on his technique of herding the coach off the field. I think it was more than what was required and looked somewhat comical.

I agree.
I was giving BU props for staying away pre ejection.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by msavakinas

Garth:

he paid the price by getting dumped.

This is what I don't understand. The price he paid (getting dumped) is the consequence for his behavior, not the price for sticking around and continuing to vent. He is no longer a participant and as such, has no right to be on the field or vent at me.

You're an aspiring law student. Try this:

When a judge, who has had enough crap from someone in his courtroom orders the bailiff to remove him, doe he say: "But wait a minute, he's paid the price, let him stick around for a few seconds and vent at me first."

I don't think so.

Many times, when I see umpires allow an ejected coach to stick around and have his say, the situation goes from bad to worse with the coach showing up the umpire(s) and further delaying the game. What part of that is positive?

I know at the pro level managers are apt to yell "I paid my five bucks, I'm gonna get my money's worth." Even at that level, you'll see umpires who will continue to argue with him and those who will walk away and let their partners do their job. The ones that walk away seem to have shorter interruptions in the game and fewer antics by the managers.

I don't don't work proball, not even as a fill-in anymore. I'm not there to let some clown entertain the crowd. I'm there to work a baseball game. An ejected coach may stay a bit too long on the field acting out, but not with me participating.

[PeteBooth]

I believe it was Garth who gave us a link of a confrontation between Tom Haller and Earl Weaver.

Earl was dumped but as the energizer bunny kept going and going and going. Haller tried to get away but Earl wouldn't let him.

However, that is PRO ball and IMO you cannot compare PRO ball to amateur ball.

Nothing good can follow when you allow a coach to "continue" after he has been dumped. If he was civil to begin with he would not have been dumped. Why continue to allow the coach to yell obsentities sarcasm's etc. To me it makes no sense.

You said after you dump the coach

then stand and listen for 5-10 seconds,

My question is this:

Then why bothering dumping him if you are going to listen to him. Either dump him get the game moving or "take it" and delay the game even more.

Now what if you have an incident with the "other' coach and have to dump him. Does that mean you also give him his due as well.

When the coach is dumped he's dumped and deserves no more attention.

Pete Booth

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

I believe it was Garth who gave us a link of a confrontation between Tom Haller and Earl Weaver.

Bill Haller was the umpire. Tom Haller was a catcher.

[PeteBooth]

Thanks Garth I always got those 2 mixed up.

Pete Booth

[DG]

I never discuss ejections in pregame. I will get mine and my partner will get his and I have his back and I expect him to have mine. There are more regular things to discuss in pregame than how to handle ejections.

I have discussed ejections at pregame if forewarned, but that is rare. Last year I ejected a coach I had not been forewarned about. I found out later my assigner had been forewarned but he looked at the schedule and concluded that my partner and I would take care of business so he didn't tell us.

[umpduck11]

Originally Posted by GarthB

Deserves? As in a reward? For getting dumped, you're going to reward him?

There are some who work that way. I haven't seen it often, thankfully. It's been my experience that getting his say usually plays a part in getting him ejected.

Once a coach has been dumped, I don't care what he has to say and I will not entertain any further dialog with him. He's no longer in the game and no longer has any right to discuss anything with me. Why would I want to subject myself to abuse from someone who has already proven to be abusive? Sounds like the the battered spouse syndrome.

Thank you, Garth, for better wording my thoughts on this point.