Ump Throws Partner Under Bus

[SMEngmann]

Just to preface, I coach a HS V baseball team and I also referee basketball at the JC and HS levels. I have some very limited experience as an umpire, but my question is regarding something that happened in a game that I coached.

At the end of the 4th inning there was a time play with BR trying to get to 3rd and R1 trying to score. PU came out to call the play at 3rd and had limited coverage of whether the run actually scored. They got the play right and scored the run as BR was thrown out at 3rd, and there was no argument. We got the benefit of the call with the run scoring. Between innings, PU comes to our dugout to verify the score and comments, "If my partner knew what he was doing, I would have been able to tell for sure that the run scored." On another play when we had a runner caught stealing at 2nd and BU made the call, PU apparantly made eye contact with one of our coaches and rolled his eyes at the call. My question is, as a coach, should I report this to the assignor, tell another respected umpire or let it go. As a basketball ref, I'd be mad as hell if this happened in a basketball game.

[Rags 11]

you've been on both sides of the lines. There's no excuse, or explanation for that type of display.

I'd say report the conduct to the assignor, and let the chips fall where they may.

AR

[UmpJM]

SMEngmann,

While I agree with Rags that the umpire's behavior in throwing his partner under the bus was reprehensible, as someone who coached for 13 years prior to umpiring, I'm not sure I'd "do" anything about it if I were you.

From my perspective, that's an issue for the umpires to deal with among themselves, and I doubt that your input would be appreciated.

Having said that, I've got to admit I'm kind of curious about two points...

1. WTF was the PU doing making the call at 3B in the initial sitch you described?!!? If I'm the PU in that sitch, as soon as I see there's no play on R1 I'm letting my partner know "I'm goin' HOME!" and HE's got any ensuing play on the BR at 3B.

2. On the "roll the eyes" call, did the BU get it right, or did he FUBAR?

Regardless, no excuse for throwing your partner under the bus, but I'm still curious.

JM

[jicecone]

Several years ago, my partner flipped out on a manager and coach to the point that it was embarrassing. Actually, he wore two hats, one as a director of the league and another, as an umpire.

His actions were unexcusable however, mine were worse. During his rant I spoke to a player about my partner flipping out. Just a few words came back to haunt and embarass me also.

The player told the manager what I had said and it was later used against him in an informal hearing.

Bottom line, sometimes you have learn the hard way, to just shut your mouth. I did, and was very effective.

I ALWAYS, supported my partner after that.

Call the assignor!

[umpduck11]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

From my perspective, that's an issue for the umpires to deal with among themselves, and I doubt that your input would be appreciated.


JM

But if the remarks were made at the dugout, partner had no way of hearing it.
Chances are this isn't the first time this umpire has pulled this sh*t, and someone needs to know about it. Being as the poster is a b'ball ref, too, it
would have more impact, IMHO.

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by SMEngmann

At the end of the 4th inning there was a time play with BR trying to get to 3rd and R1 trying to score. PU came out to call the play at 3rd and had limited coverage of whether the run actually scored. They got the play right and scored the run as BR was thrown out at 3rd, and there was no argument. We got the benefit of the call with the run scoring. Between innings, PU comes to our dugout to verify the score and comments, "If my partner knew what he was doing, I would have been able to tell for sure that the run scored."

That's the problem in the world we live in meaning too many people "pass the buck" and do not take responsibility for their own actions.

With R1 heading home the PU has no business being at third base. That is
the BU's job. In addition to watching the time play the PU MUST also make certain R1 actually touches the plate in case there is an appeal play.

Not only was the PU unsure about the time play but he had no clue whether or not R1 touched the plate or not.

By telling you "If my partner knew what he was doing, I would have been able to tell for sure that the run scored" is the PU's way of trying to cover his you know what.

Now I do not know what the protocol is in your area, but in my area coaches have a say meaning they fill out a rating sheet after the game.

IMO, if you are required to fill out a rating sheet is where you can add a comment about what happened.

Also, I am surprised that this umpire is still umpiring varsity games because I doubt this was the first time this particlar umpire put a fellow umpire under the bus. Perhaps there is politics lurking.

Pete Booth

[fitump56]

Report it, these two don't ever need to be working together again.

[budjones05]

In Missouri, all varsity games are rated. If you have this option, I would include this in the rating forms.

[SMEngmann]

Just as a follow up on some of the points:

1) On the play at 3rd, PU had to make a call there because he and partner didn't communicate and BU was not in position. There was no argument because they got it right, but there definitely would have been one had the run been ruled not to score. I know enough of the mechanics to know that they were very wrong mechanically on this play. I'm sure the comment to me was borne out of frustration, but as a fellow official especially, I felt it was very inappropriate.

2) The play at 2nd base where he rolled his eyes. The play was close, but there was no argument. It appeared as if R1 had avoided the tag of F6 but the ball beat him there and my attention was on the baserunning error and bad read my runner made in getting picked off than on the call.

3) I have no ability to rate umpires, but we do get dings for postseason and I don't necessarily plan to use any. My concern is as an official primarily, but as a coach, if an umpire broadcasts his feelings like that about his partner, it opens a huge can of worms in that divide and conquer would work with him. This affects me as a coach in that I don't want to worry about an overzealous partner trying to overrule judgement calls if an opposing coach objects.

Based on your posts, I am leaning toward dropping the assignor a note just to let him know what happened.

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by SMEngmann

Just as a follow up on some of the points:

1) On the play at 3rd, PU had to make a call there because he and partner didn't communicate and BU was not in position. There was no argument because they got it right, but there definitely would have been one had the run been ruled not to score. I know enough of the mechanics to know that they were very wrong mechanically on this play. I'm sure the comment to me was borne out of frustration, but as a fellow official especially, I felt it was very inappropriate.

2) The play at 2nd base where he rolled his eyes. The play was close, but there was no argument. It appeared as if R1 had avoided the tag of F6 but the ball beat him there and my attention was on the baserunning error and bad read my runner made in getting picked off than on the call.

3) I have no ability to rate umpires, but we do get dings for postseason and I don't necessarily plan to use any. My concern is as an official primarily, but as a coach, if an umpire broadcasts his feelings like that about his partner, it opens a huge can of worms in that divide and conquer would work with him. This affects me as a coach in that I don't want to worry about an overzealous partner trying to overrule judgement calls if an opposing coach objects.

Based on your posts, I am leaning toward dropping the assignor a note just to let him know what happened.

Leaning?

Leaning?

You want betterofficiating but you "lean" to whether or not you want to be proactive? You deserve the twosomes like this and don't come back here *****in' when you get them.