Balk or No Balk

[njdevs00cup]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOFzOkMJHqw#ofWsHchnArA

[cookie]

Unless I'm missing something, I don't see a balk here. F1 from the set stepped directly toward first gaining distance and direction (and threw to the base. That's understood, even though we don't see it))...

[njdevs00cup]

Originally Posted by cookie

Unless I'm missing something, I don't see a balk here. F1 from the set stepped directly toward first gaining distance and direction (and threw to the base. That's understood, even though we don't see it))...

The question I have is whether he turns his shoulders?

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by njdevs00cup

The question I have is whether he turns his shoulders?

He has to turn his shoulders to throw. Once set, he can't turn his shoulders and NOT throw. (He can turn his shoulders to check the runner while getting his signs. (6-1))

It's a legal move.

[johnnyg08]

no balk...pretty standard pick off move...it does appear that he does twitch the knee of his pivot foot...but I'd have a tough time calling a balk here.

[cookie]

"The question I have is whether he turns his shoulders?"

I don't see any significant shoulder movement. However, the shoulder does have to (physically) move in the direction of 1st when he first STEPS to throw there.

If the shoulders were to move slightly toward third (after he came to the Set), that would be an indication of a pitch and he would be committed to follow through with a pitch. Any throw to 1st then would be a balk.

Also, he can move his head to check the runners as much as he wants after he comes to the Set (as long as he doesn't significantly move those shoulders). Any twitch of the shoulders could be viewed as feint.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by cookie

"The question I have is whether he turns his shoulders?"

I think those addressing that line of questioning are referring to his shoulder turn to check the runner when his is contact with the rubber and in the stretch prior to coming set. It used to be illegal in FED. It isn't any more.

[johnnyg08]

what rule refers to the shoulders? distance and direction...

[DG]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

what rule refers to the shoulders? distance and direction...

6-1-1 refers to shoulders. 6-2-4b is the rule that requires the pitcher to step directly toward a base to throw there and "distance and direction" are commonly used interpretive words to explain what stepping directly means.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

what rule refers to the shoulders? distance and direction...

Fed cites the shoulder turn as being a balk after coming set.

Some years back, since, in FED, pitching regulations began when the pitcher made contact with the rubber, the interpretation was that the shoulder turn was also illegal when in the stretch. That has specifically been changed.

And, while distance and direction is used by umpires, that phrase is not in the FED rule book.

[MadCityRef]

Problem I see is he doesn't disengage the rubber first.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by MadCityRef

Problem I see is he doesn't disengage the rubber first.

Why should he? He's stepping and throwing to a base without making a move toward home.

Edited to add: The only reasons to disengage are 1. F1 performs the move incorrectly while engaged and, 2. So many umpires mistakenly think that a RH must disengage to throw to first.

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by MadCityRef

Problem I see is he doesn't disengage the rubber first.

no, no, no, no,...anybody who's played baseball at any level about T-ball...

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by MadCityRef

Problem I see is he doesn't disengage the rubber first.

that is not a requirement for throwing to a base

[cookie]

"I think those addressing that line of questioning are referring to his shoulder turn to check the runner when his is contact with the rubber and in the stretch prior to coming set. It used to be illegal in FED. It isn't any more."

You're right Bossman. I was viewing the question about the shoulders after F1 had come to the Set, and my post was written from that perspective.