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-   -   Balk or No Balk (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/42379-balk-no-balk.html)

njdevs00cup Sun Mar 02, 2008 01:35pm

Balk or No Balk
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOFzOkMJHqw#ofWsHchnArA

cookie Sun Mar 02, 2008 02:10pm

Unless I'm missing something, I don't see a balk here. F1 from the set stepped directly toward first gaining distance and direction (and threw to the base. That's understood, even though we don't see it))...

njdevs00cup Sun Mar 02, 2008 02:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by cookie
Unless I'm missing something, I don't see a balk here. F1 from the set stepped directly toward first gaining distance and direction (and threw to the base. That's understood, even though we don't see it))...

The question I have is whether he turns his shoulders?

GarthB Sun Mar 02, 2008 02:41pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by njdevs00cup
The question I have is whether he turns his shoulders?

He has to turn his shoulders to throw. Once set, he can't turn his shoulders and NOT throw. (He can turn his shoulders to check the runner while getting his signs. (6-1))

It's a legal move.

johnnyg08 Sun Mar 02, 2008 03:04pm

no balk...pretty standard pick off move...it does appear that he does twitch the knee of his pivot foot...but I'd have a tough time calling a balk here.

cookie Sun Mar 02, 2008 06:20pm

"The question I have is whether he turns his shoulders?"

I don't see any significant shoulder movement. However, the shoulder does have to (physically) move in the direction of 1st when he first STEPS to throw there.

If the shoulders were to move slightly toward third (after he came to the Set), that would be an indication of a pitch and he would be committed to follow through with a pitch. Any throw to 1st then would be a balk.

Also, he can move his head to check the runners as much as he wants after he comes to the Set (as long as he doesn't significantly move those shoulders). Any twitch of the shoulders could be viewed as feint.

GarthB Sun Mar 02, 2008 06:31pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by cookie
"The question I have is whether he turns his shoulders?"

I think those addressing that line of questioning are referring to his shoulder turn to check the runner when his is contact with the rubber and in the stretch prior to coming set. It used to be illegal in FED. It isn't any more.

johnnyg08 Sun Mar 02, 2008 06:40pm

what rule refers to the shoulders? distance and direction...

DG Sun Mar 02, 2008 08:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyg08
what rule refers to the shoulders? distance and direction...

6-1-1 refers to shoulders. 6-2-4b is the rule that requires the pitcher to step directly toward a base to throw there and "distance and direction" are commonly used interpretive words to explain what stepping directly means.

GarthB Sun Mar 02, 2008 08:25pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyg08
what rule refers to the shoulders? distance and direction...


Fed cites the shoulder turn as being a balk after coming set.

Some years back, since, in FED, pitching regulations began when the pitcher made contact with the rubber, the interpretation was that the shoulder turn was also illegal when in the stretch. That has specifically been changed.

And, while distance and direction is used by umpires, that phrase is not in the FED rule book.

MadCityRef Sun Mar 02, 2008 08:26pm

Problem I see is he doesn't disengage the rubber first.

GarthB Sun Mar 02, 2008 08:32pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadCityRef
Problem I see is he doesn't disengage the rubber first.

Why should he? He's stepping and throwing to a base without making a move toward home.

Edited to add: The only reasons to disengage are 1. F1 performs the move incorrectly while engaged and, 2. So many umpires mistakenly think that a RH must disengage to throw to first.

johnnyg08 Sun Mar 02, 2008 09:53pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadCityRef
Problem I see is he doesn't disengage the rubber first.

no, no, no, no,...anybody who's played baseball at any level about T-ball...

bossman72 Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadCityRef
Problem I see is he doesn't disengage the rubber first.

that is not a requirement for throwing to a base

cookie Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:55pm

"I think those addressing that line of questioning are referring to his shoulder turn to check the runner when his is contact with the rubber and in the stretch prior to coming set. It used to be illegal in FED. It isn't any more."

You're right Bossman. I was viewing the question about the shoulders after F1 had come to the Set, and my post was written from that perspective.


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