Would you have dumped him?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

I specifically posed the question for a youth game for a reason. In an upper level game (college and above) I don't see where a reaction like this would warrant an ejection. But for HS on down this is a no brainer to me.

I think we get ourselves in trouble when we have this black and white, all or nothing philosophies on these kinds of things. I am sure I would likely eject, but some other things my change my opinion. Is the coach taking care of it immediately? Did the player say anything to me directly after or before he throws his helmet? Was this kid a problem during other parts of the game? I like to let players and coaches hang themselves to the point I throw them. Maybe it is the football and basketball official in me but I like the fact I can warn before I have to file paper work.

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

I'm surprised that you'd allow a player at this level to throw sh1t while still on the field and not run him, jice. Allowing him to do this without an ejection just leaves a mess for the next crew working one of his games to clean up.

What the crew did before is irrelevant to me and what the crew will do behind me is irrelevant. I will not likely be around at all so that is not something I am going to concern myself with. I am only concerned with my standards for that game and that might change based on a lot of other factors I will not list right now.

Peace

[kylejt]

I'm going to retract my statement about dumping him in a heartbeat. I would have given a coach about 1.5 seconds to react to his helmet toss. If the coach want to jump him before I get a chance, so be it. One point five seconds is his window of opportunity to do so. That didn't happen in this situation, so out he goes.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by kylejt

I'm going to retract my statement about dumping him in a heartbeat. I would have given a coach about 1.5 seconds to react to his helmet toss. If the coach want to jump him before I get a chance, so be it. One point five seconds is his window of opportunity to do so. That didn't happen in this situation, so out he goes.

And that is the jukes of my philosophy. If that player turned to me immediately and started yelling, now he is mine.

Peace

[JJ]

BigUmp56 - I specifically posed the question for a youth game for a reason. In an upper level game (college and above) I don't see where a reaction like this would warrant an ejection. But for HS on down this is a no brainer to me.

Hmmm....I WOULD dump this kid - very quickly - and hope that his coach would deal with him as well. I would also expect a visit from the coach, and if he made his point professionally I'd let him talk a little longer than usual IF I thought there was a chance I'd blown the call.
As for the higher levels - you bet I'd dump the player. HE should know better than to put on that kind of show. And his coach would be on my a$$ for missing the call AND on HIS a$$ for taking himself out of the game.

JJ

[jicecone]

After a FULL cup of regular coffee, I'll just say we will have to agree to disagree here.

This was not pro ball, so that argument has NOTHING to do with.

I will stick with my original answer though and move on, no ejection.

[Rich]

Why do some umpires allow this kind of behavior?

I won't allow children to show me up. Never, ever, ever.

And any coach who defends his children showing up an umpire can keep the child company on the bus.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Why do some umpires allow this kind of behavior?

I won't allow children to show me up. Never, ever, ever.

And any coach who defends his children showing up an umpire can keep the child company on the bus.

This is the very problem I have with many baseball umpires. You would never be able to work basketball or football if every time someone said something to you if there was an ejection on the spot. This is not the pros. Pro players and coaches know what is coming and that is why they know what to do and say to get ejected. I really wish we would get that pro mentality out of even college to LL ball.

Peace

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

This is the very problem I have with many baseball umpires. You would never be able to work basketball or football if every time someone said something to you if there was an ejection on the spot. This is not the pros. Pro players and coaches know what is coming and that is why they know what to do and say to get ejected. I really wish we would get that pro mentality out of even college to LL ball.

Peace

Stick to the scenario, Jeff. This isn't an issue of somebody saying something. This is a player throwing equipment, TWICE, in disgust over an officials call.

I had this happen in basketball, and it was an easy call. Player threw his equipment bag in disgust at my partner's call. Real easy call.

[spokanelurker]

As a former coach, far be it from me to agree with you guys, generally. In this case, however, I'd let the helmet go (pushed off his head impulsively), but the thrown hat would seal the deal. The consequence should be the same in this situation, whether imposed by coach or umpire.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by GarthB

Stick to the scenario, Jeff. This isn't an issue of somebody saying something. This is a player throwing equipment, TWICE, in disgust over an officials call.

So would you eject someone every time they show disgust? I would think not. That is why I said this was not "automatic" for me.

Originally Posted by GarthB

I had this happen in basketball, and it was an easy call. Player threw his equipment bag in disgust at my partner's call. Real easy call.

Throwing an equipment bag and jumping around in disgust are two different things. A player had to go get the equipment bag in basketball because the last time I checked they do not run around with one. And if last night I got upset over every time a player showed disgust with a call that was made or not made, we would not have had any players to play. Showing disgust is not all I am looking for just because I called something. I see it much more in other sports and we do not even penalize them. We say something to the coach or the coach immediately handles it, we take note of it but that does not mean it is automatically an ejection.

Peace

[kylejt]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

This is the very problem I have with many baseball umpires. You would never be able to work basketball or football if every time someone said something to you if there was an ejection on the spot.

That's so true. When I watch HS basketball, I can't for the life of me understand why the officials let the coaches talk to them like that. They drop "You...." in the first 30 seconds of every game. Me, I'd hike up my polyester black slacks and toss anyone who'd yell at me like that. If all hardwood officials had the balls to do so they wouldn't be in the state they're in. Although I'll be honest with you, the first time some pencilnecked basketball coach said "you're horrible" with those beet red faces they get, an ejection would be the least of his troubles. I guess that's why I'll never be a ref. Don't talk to me any differently than you would at the grocery store.

Honestly, I don't know how you guys do it.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by kylejt

That's so true. When I watch HS basketball, I can't for the life of me understand why the officials let the coaches talk to them like that. They drop "You...." in the first 30 seconds of every game. Me, I'd hike up my polyester black slacks and toss anyone who'd yell at me like that. If all hardwood officials had the balls to do so they wouldn't be in the state they're in. Although I'll be honest with you, the first time some pencilnecked basketball coach said "you're horrible" with those beet red faces they get, an ejection would be the least of his troubles. I guess that's why I'll never be a ref. Don't talk to me any differently than you would at the grocery store.

Honestly, I don't know how you guys do it.

You must have an ejection every game if you do not like people yelling at you. I see more coaches in baseball yelling and screaming and acting like a maniac then basketball coaches ever do. Coaches whine more than anything. Being a wing official on a football crew would really get you all bent of shape.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by kylejt

That's so true. When I watch HS basketball, I can't for the life of me understand why the officials let the coaches talk to them like that. They drop "You...." in the first 30 seconds of every game. Me, I'd hike up my polyester black slacks and toss anyone who'd yell at me like that. If all hardwood officials had the balls to do so they wouldn't be in the state they're in. Although I'll be honest with you, the first time some pencilnecked basketball coach said "you're horrible" with those beet red faces they get, an ejection would be the least of his troubles. I guess that's why I'll never be a ref. Don't talk to me any differently than you would at the grocery store.

Honestly, I don't know how you guys do it.

Don't assume that all basketball officials take crap. You would be very wrong.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

This is the very problem I have with many baseball umpires. You would never be able to work basketball or football if every time someone said something to you if there was an ejection on the spot. This is not the pros. Pro players and coaches know what is coming and that is why they know what to do and say to get ejected. I really wish we would get that pro mentality out of even college to LL ball.

Peace

I am a football varsity white hat and a varsity basketball official. In Illinois as well as Wisconsin.

I would whack the kid in basketball and would throw a 15-yard USC in football.

In baseball, the player gets ejected. C'est la vie. Different sports, different punishments.

[PeteBooth]

I realize we all have our own tolerance level, but how much "crap" do you put up with in your games.

Are you going to allow some snot nose kid to draw a line after you call a pitch a strike on the outside corner and he objects to it?

You can agree to disagree but how do you keep control in your games if tolerate such nonsense.

Look at the clip again. We cannot see the BU but IMO we have indistbutable eveidence that the kid turned around, looked at the BU and then through his helmet and hat in DISGUST at the call. It was not frustration.

Then we have the coach condoning this behavior by slapping his player on the back and basically saying "atta boy"

Pete Booth