The Lofton Out at Second

[jimpiano]

Seems to me that the play at second where Kenny Lofton was out on a nice throw from Manny Ramirez is a perfect example of why instant replay is a bad idea in MLB.

Lofton went in hand first, the umpire was in perfect position and the ball beat Lofton, but slow mo replays showed Lofton's hand beat the tag which first grazed the bag as it swept toward him.

Lofton never argued the call and went back to the dugout. It is a play that is called the same way hundreds, if not thousands, of times in the regular season.

The players know that a slide into the tag when the ball is there the result is most likely an out, even if the foot or hand gets in.

Agonizing on each of those calls over slo-mo replays would serve no useful purpose and delay the game to the point of boredom.

[hawk21]

yes, but don't you want to make the correct call? A nice slide that clearly beats the tag even though the ball was there and you want to call him out!
So if a runner beats the ball, but the defensive player clearly finds a way to tag the runer out, do we now call him safe? Be careful!

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by hawk21

yes, but don't you want to make the correct call? A nice slide that clearly beats the tag even though the ball was there and you want to call him out!
So if a runner beats the ball, but the defensive player clearly finds a way to tag the runer out, do we now call him safe? Be careful!

That, however, was not the play.

A nice slide that avoids the tag is much different than coming straight in to the tag. Kenny Lofton knew the situation and the result, even though he knows he got his hand on the bag first. That is the way the game is played.
And everyone accepts plays like that as the "right" call, even though instant replay does not.

[hawk21]

sorry didn't see the play, so I guess in this situation you are correct!

[jicecone]

I don't know if this would ever make the list of calls eligible for an IR review but, I believe the right call was made for the given situation though.

Why, the umpire was right on top of the play and the ball beat the runner to the bag. The fielder made a swipe tag that could or could not have got the tip of the runners fingers. The runner had a slight hesitation getting to second. The umpire did not have the benefit of reviewing the call 3 times at 3different angle's either.

It is impossible to have perfection in an unperfect game.

Batters only hit around 30%.

Pitchers are probably less that 60% effective.

Fielders make errors.

Humans play the game.

The ONLY thing we have not taken into consideration here is the media.

They make there living and thrive on the controversy. Right or Wrong

[David B]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

Seems to me that the play at second where Kenny Lofton was out on a nice throw from Manny Ramirez is a perfect example of why instant replay is a bad idea in MLB.

Lofton went in hand first, the umpire was in perfect position and the ball beat Lofton, but slow mo replays showed Lofton's hand beat the tag which first grazed the bag as it swept toward him.

Lofton never argued the call and went back to the dugout. It is a play that is called the same way hundreds, if not thousands, of times in the regular season.

The players know that a slide into the tag when the ball is there the result is most likely an out, even if the foot or hand gets in.

Agonizing on each of those calls over slo-mo replays would serve no useful purpose and delay the game to the point of boredom.

I agree with the jest of your post, there after all was no argument from anyone; however, the umpire was "on top of the play" literally.

He was way too close to the play for some reason and might have been a problem on the call. He probably could have seen it from a better distance, it looked on TV like he was only about five feet from the call.

Don't know how that happened ...

Thansk
David

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by David B

I agree with the jest of your post

I don't believe he was joking, but I got the "gist" of what he was saying.

I also don't believe that the umpire was "too close" to the play. He just made the "expected call," which was the correct call for that situation. Still not a reason to institute instant replay.

Yes, it was that one darn call on Kenny Lofton that lost the game for the Indians.

Oh well, back to burning up.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by David B

I agree with the jest of your post, there after all was no argument from anyone; however, the umpire was "on top of the play" literally.

I don't think he was joking.

Lofton tried to catch Ramirez napping, and failed. I didn't notice the umpire too close to the play.

[BigTex]

Originally Posted by mbyron

I didn't notice the umpire too close to the play.

If you see the replay from the camera angle behind first base (looking up the a$$ end of the play), you will see Lofton's right foot make contact with the umpire's front foot. That is way too close. I am not saying that his being too close played any part in his making the call (either the "expected" call or the wrong one, whichever side of the debate you are on), but he was definitely too close.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by BigTex

If you see the replay from the camera angle behind first base (looking up the a$$ end of the play), you will see Lofton's right foot make contact with the umpire's front foot. That is way too close. I am not saying that his being too close played any part in his making the call (either the "expected" call or the wrong one, whichever side of the debate you are on), but he was definitely too close.

Wing nut U2 didn't hustle to get proper positioning more than likely. He either thought it was a sure double or Lofton wasn't going attempt second. Poor mechanics for a game seven playoff umpire.

The expected call in a playoff game. Give me a break.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

Wing nut U2 didn't hustle to get proper positioning more than likely. He either thought it was a sure double or Lofton wasn't going attempt second. Poor mechanics for a a game seven playoff umpire.

The expected call in a playoff game. Give me a break.

Lofton --> didn't say a word to the umpire
Wedge --> stayed in the dugout

Must've been a HORRIBLE call if the only complaints were by the rabble-rousing announcers.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by BigTex

If you see the replay from the camera angle behind first base (looking up the a$$ end of the play), you will see Lofton's right foot make contact with the umpire's front foot. That is way too close. I am not saying that his being too close played any part in his making the call (either the "expected" call or the wrong one, whichever side of the debate you are on), but he was definitely too close.

I'm not arguing with you. I just didn't notice it.

[David B]

Originally Posted by mbyron

I don't think he was joking.

Lofton tried to catch Ramirez napping, and failed. I didn't notice the umpire too close to the play.

Watch the replay, there is no way that's where you want to be to make this call.

At least not a MLB umpire, that's a LL mistake.

I would have made the same call, but I would have made it from 12 -15 feet

thanks
David

[gordon30307]

Originally Posted by David B

Watch the replay, there is no way that's where you want to be to make this call.

At least not a MLB umpire, that's a LL mistake.

I would have made the same call, but I would have made it from 12 -15 feet

thanks
David

12- 15 feet!!!!!!!!!!! That's why you're not in the show.

[TxUmp]

Among other reasons.