The Lofton Out at Second

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by David B

I don't want to be in the show, but I do know proper positioning for this play, and I'm sure his supervisor has made certain that he knows it.

MLB pays too much money for an obvious mistake, and they are professionals paid lots of money for what they do.

I don't have a problem with the call as I stated earlier, but I was just making a point to many of our younger officials,

"the umpire was not in the best position to make the call"

Thanks
David

Despite your insistance, 12 to 15 feet away is a very good distance away from a force play. You should be much closer to the play for a tag. We've bantied this one about ad nauseum, but that's the way Jon Bible taught it, as well as the pro school guys I learned from. How the hell can you see a really slick tag of the runner on a banger from 15 feet away? What, you wearin' binoculars? I rarely missed a banger tag play over the years (other than the occasional pickoff where I was, listen closely, TOO FAR from the play). I feel that it was my positioning in a little closer proximity to the play that gave me a far superior look at exactly what transpired.

Currently evacuated to in-laws due to fires. Hope I don't lose home. Prayers appreciated.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Currently evacuated to in-laws due to fires. Hope I don't lose home. Prayers appreciated.

Prayers from Spokane on the way, as well as an engine company that left last night.

[Welpe]

Prayers from here as well, Steve.

[Anonymous67]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Currently evacuated to in-laws due to fires. Hope I don't lose home. Prayers appreciated.

Thought maybe I see you here today. I've been in DC for almost a month. I was to fly home tomorrow, but decided to head to San Diego to check in on relatives. It's a b*tch trying to get a flight, though. I may have to fly to SFO and then drive down.

Stay cool.

[David B]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Despite your insistance, 12 to 15 feet away is a very good distance away from a force play. You should be much closer to the play for a tag. We've bantied this one about ad nauseum, but that's the way Jon Bible taught it, as well as the pro school guys I learned from. How the hell can you see a really slick tag of the runner on a banger from 15 feet away? What, you wearin' binoculars? I rarely missed a banger tag play over the years (other than the occasional pickoff where I was, listen closely, TOO FAR from the play). I feel that it was my positioning in a little closer proximity to the play that gave me a far superior look at exactly what transpired.

Currently evacuated to in-laws due to fires. Hope I don't lose home. Prayers appreciated.

I can agree with what you said. When I said 12-15 feet that was probably in haste for a tag play, but I like what Bob said above, he was in the best possible position for him to be, I think the play fooled him and he was just late getting into position.

Sorry to read about the evacuation, have put you on our prayer list at church.

Thanks
David

[bobbybanaduck]

Originally Posted by David B

I think the play fooled him and he was just late getting into position.

you're still wrong.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by David B

Sorry to read about the evacuation, have put you on our prayer list at church.

Thanks
David

Thanks David, and all the others too!

[LomUmp]

Hey all,

First and foremost, thoughts and prayers go out to anyone involved in the fire situations.

I believe that the Tribes 3rd base coach holding Lofton at third when the ball was @ 30-40' away from Manny being Manny in left field was MORE detrimental to the Indians' cause. Sure, it didn't involve a call by an umpire, but I still think that is what cost them the game, and eventually, the series.

LomUmp

[gordon30307]

Originally Posted by LomUmp

Hey all,

First and foremost, thoughts and prayers go out to anyone involved in the fire situations.

I believe that the Tribes 3rd base coach holding Lofton at third when the ball was @ 30-40' away from Manny being Manny in left field was MORE detrimental to the Indians' cause. Sure, it didn't involve a call by an umpire, but I still think that is what cost them the game, and eventually, the series.

LomUmp

I think Cleveland got blown out in that game. How could 1 run make a difference. If the run scored all it does is tie the game. BTW if memory serves me correct there was one out and the next batter hit into a DP. At best the game is tied and Cleveland still loses.

[LomUmp]

Originally Posted by gordon30307

I think Cleveland got blown out in that game. How could 1 run make a difference. If the run scored all it does is tie the game. BTW if memory serves me correct there was one out and the next batter hit into a DP. At best the game is tied and Cleveland still loses.

Hey all,

I think that the game would have been played differently by the Indians if they were tied and not behind. Would the result have been the same? Who knows.

LomUmp

[DG]

Originally Posted by LomUmp

I think that the game would have been played differently by the Indians if they were tied and not behind. Would the result have been the same? Who knows.

LomUmp

You are kidding, right? What would the Indians have done differently? At the point in the game when this happened there was no argument. Had this happened in a late inning under same conditions I doubt that would have been the case.

[hawk21]

gentlemen, remember "angle to distance" not "distance to angle"---get the best possible angle and you will always make the correct call, even if you are 12 to 15 feet away or more, or more, or more!

[bobbybanaduck]

always!

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by hawk21

gentlemen, remember "angle to distance" not "distance to angle"---get the best possible angle and you will always make the correct call, even if you are 12 to 15 feet away or more, or more, or more!

And that being said, I'd still rather be close to a tag play and farther away for a force play. I can get the calls right watching on TV, but I would rather be on the field. I can get the calls right with a great angle, but if I can get right in there on a tag play (without losing sight of the whole play), I will.

Update:

Back home. Fire (San Miguel) came within a mile of our neighborhood. Others of course not as lucky unfortunately .

Thanks once again for all the prayers and concern from all you great brother umpires. We can fiercely argue back and forth on this forum, but at the end of the day we stick together in times of trouble.

[stretchblue612]

I think he just missed it. Nothing to do with "ball beating the runner". Sometimes those headfirst slides are tricky. Arms outstretched. Tag coming down between those arms. BU trying to see if the hands hit the base first, or the tag applied first. Especially if the tag is not being laid on the hands. Where to look? At the hands on the bag? At the point of tag? Cant watch em both. Unless, maybe he is back a few feet.
Im in the camp that he is too close. I like being closer also on a tag play, but not this close. Back up a bit, and maybe get a wider shot of that tag vs hands hitting the bag.