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Wed Aug 16, 2000, 07:59am
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GUYS:
This situation arose last week in a game. It has been disucssed elsewhere but input form others would be interesting. The crux of my question pertains to a part of the arguement I was involved in. To get to the point of contention, here is a very brief lead up. I was working with a younger umpire at in adult baseball. There is an ongoing arguement between him and the coach. I get between them and put my arm around the coach to "escort" him back to the dugout. He took exception to me touching him. The incident got a little heated but nothing worse happened. Here is my questin to you. Do you think my touching the coach is way out of bounds? If he put his arm around me to discuss something, I don't know how I would have reacted. your thoughts guys. Blaine Gallant Member, UT 
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Wed Aug 16, 2000, 08:25pm
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quote: Blaine: The main discussion took place on UT, so you know my opinion. For the sake of others, let me summarize my advice: 1. Since the youngster was calling "above his natural level," you should get out immediately to the confrontation. 2. I agreed that the coach should have been ejected: I said, If you had to grab him, he's toast. Several argued that going out at once deprived the youngster of necessary "experience." I said the young man will never forget the coach's action, his reactions, and your actions. He GOT his experience. You can't wait for the train wreck in such cases. I'll be interested in other responses as well. ------------------ Papa C Editor, eUmpire
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Thu Aug 17, 2000, 02:01am
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I s'pose you can add me to the, "me too," pile.
He should've been ejected. You were fine breaking it up when you did. However, don't put your hands on the coach unless you and/or your partner are in immediate danger of assault. Some people don't like to be touched. So it's far better to touch no one than touch someone who is offended by it. Touching a coach like you did just gives the coach more feul for his fire. Amateur coaches think they're just like the big boys. They hear about the pros and how players and coaches are fined if they touch the umpires. An amateur coach can make a big deal out of this when he is already steamed. Anything we can do to defuse an explosive situation is always best. Talk very quietly to the coach. This can sometimes sooth the savage beast. Try to get the coach's mind off the argument and back on the game. But don't touch him. Sincerely, Jim Porter
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Thu Aug 17, 2000, 02:40am
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Blaine, this is the 4th board that I have visited in which you are trying to get a consensus on whether you should be allowed to touch or grab a coach who is arguing with your rookie partner.
The answer is, NO!! Dammit, admit you were wrong and get on with it. Don't look for anyone to agree with you. You were wrong! Learn and move on. Dave ( I've screwed up a whole lot worse than you) Davies.
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Thu Aug 17, 2000, 10:18am
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quote: Blaine - I'm with the others - NO TOUCHING. I do not even put my hands on F2 when calling Balls / Strikes as was done years ago. Since you were the verteran in this game - you should have stopped the argument sooner. This could ruin a young umpires confidence. The hardest part about umpiring is IMO GAME CONTROL. This area of umpiring one must learn through experiences. Rules / Mechanics can be taught but Game Control comes with experience. The coach should have been tossed. Also, after the game, away from the action and in private, explain to the young Blue what he could do better the next time to help him in this area. I know when I started I welcomed aid from a veteran umpire when I got myself in a "pickel" or had a problem with the coach. It seems standard in all the coaching ranks - "Let me see how far I can go with this rookie" It's up to the verteran to put an end to such nonsence. Also, heated arguments are never a good idea as bad things can only happen. Give the coach his due but after that - it's play ball or see ya. Pete Booth ------------------ Peter M. Booth
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Thu Aug 17, 2000, 10:32am
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Never, NEVER, EVER touch the coach. Even if you know him off the field and you think this make calm him down (it won't). You will also add fuel to the fire of the opposing coach if there is a call later that goes against him. He WILL remember your arm around him and besides claiming it's a make-up call, the worse would happen - he'll doubt your integrity by you chuming up to the other coach.
Let him vent, (especially if your partner might have blown the call). Tell him he made his point, then get on with the game. If he wants to argue more, Then he's a goner !!!
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Thu Aug 17, 2000, 04:33pm
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There is a way to escort a coach or manager back to the dugout without touching (I agree with the others-don't put your hands on the coach).
1. Get the coach's attention: with eye contact, your voice, and/or your physical presence in his face. 2. Begin speaking calmly with the coach 3. While still speaking, start walking towards the dugout. Most times, the coach will walk with you. Do not stop speaking to the coach until you reach the dugout. As soon as you stop speaking, he'll stop walking and probably will return back to the other umpire. Then, you'll have to toss him.
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Thu Aug 17, 2000, 11:19pm
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quote: Dave: I admit I was wrong. On the other boards, I admitted that this was the wrong thing in my intial post. I am not looking for support for a bad action. My reason for posting a few different places was to have lurkers see how not to do things and avoid this situation. Blaine Gallant
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Sat Aug 19, 2000, 08:57am
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I do not completely agree an umpire should NEVER touch a coach. Umpires and managers all have different personalities. What works in some situations flops in others.
I completely agree physical contact is only appropriate where the umpire and manager have a long and good relationship. The ump has got to think the friendly arm around the shoulder is going to redirect and refocus the coach. I cannot see myself doing it, but if well done, I would not criticize. I vaguely remember a situation in a University of Texas game. Tommy Harmon (ass't coach) started an argument with U1. Cliff Gustafson came out to continue the discussion. [Remember despite being the “winningest” coach ever, Gus was NEVER ejected.] Jon Bible [not U1, but I don't remember where he was.] Anyway, Jon put a gentle arm around Harmon and talked quietly while Gus and U1 finished their discussion. I think Jon did a good job of keeping Harmon in the game, but I doubt he would have done it had he not called over a hundred games with Harmon. [P.S. Excuse the long post as my first on this board. Thanks, Carl, for the invitation.] ------------------ Take care, Mark
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Sat Aug 19, 2000, 06:57pm
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Blaine, I stayed out of this on UT, but I have to agree with someone who said that some people just don't like to be touched.
A true story... About 20 years ago my partner, who was PU was having a rather antimated conversation with a coach between innings near home plate. Things got hot. Then, out of the corner of his eye he saw a ball sailing towards both of them from the outfield. He reached up and grabbed the coaches arm and tried to move out of the way of the ball, dragging the coach with him. The coach reacted by punching my partner in the face. He thought he had been attacked. Later, the coach, despite his story, was suspended for the remainder of the season for punching an umpire. My partner was suspended for three games for touching a coach. Garth ------------------ Co-Moderator, UT
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Sat Aug 19, 2000, 11:47pm
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quote: I was the one who said some people just don't like to be touched. Garth's story is the defining post in this thread, as far as I'm concerned. If you're friendly with a coach then why jeopardize a good working relationship? If he doesn't like or want to be touched, then touching him might end that relationship. It's better to be safe than sorry, I always say. Sincerely, Jim Porter
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