Did he Touch the plate?

[Gaff]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

That is simply not true.

The umpire will give a non verbal safe signal if the runner slides and avoids the tag and misses the plate. The catcher can then make a live ball appeal by tagging the runner and if he does so before the runner returns to touch the plate the umpire will call and signal the runner OUT!

WRONG! This has been discussed many times. If the runner misses the plate and no tag is applied there is no call because nothing has happened yet.

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by Gaff

WRONG! This has been discussed many times. If the runner misses the plate and no tag is applied there is no call because nothing has happened yet.

Of course something has happened.

The tag was missed.

[jimpiano]

Since I started this thread by implying that McClelland missed the play I feel compelled to:

Admit I was wrong since there is no evidence to prove McClelland wrong;
Observe that McClelland was in proper position to make the call and made the call when he saw the ball and been dropped and before the catcher could make a live ball appeal;
Agree with McClelland that baseball instant replay might be a good idea on did balls leave or not leave the field of play and that is all.

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

Since I started this thread by implying that McClelland missed the play I feel compelled to:

Admit I was wrong since there is no evidence to prove McClelland wrong;
Observe that McClelland was in proper position to make the call and made the call when he saw the ball and been dropped and before the catcher could make a live ball appeal;
Agree with McClelland that baseball instant replay might be a good idea on did balls leave or not leave the field of play and that is all.

IR certainly has its place in baseball, perhaps here, perhaps not. But I disagree on your taking the position that you have to have a R safe before he can be called out. If an offensive player is trying to advance and I am calling this play, I have an out all the way until Barret forgets to play through the remainder of the play and assert his block of the plate.

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by fitump56

IR certainly has its place in baseball, perhaps here, perhaps not. But I disagree on your taking the position that you have to have a R safe before he can be called out. If an offensive player is trying to advance and I am calling this play, I have an out all the way until Barret forgets to play through the remainder of the play and assert his block of the plate.

The only person who "took a position" on the play was McClelland who ruled the runner safe. He later said he had position to see the runner touch the plate.

Nothing in any of the camera angles showed anything that could cause a reversal had instant replay been in use.

Everything that happened afterward on the field supports McClelland's call.

The only controversy was caused by the announcers concluding the plate was missed which cannot be supported by any available evidence.

[Jurassic Referee]

McLelland's take on the call........

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseb...and-call_N.htm

[johnSandlin]

I think with that article, that should end most of the questions.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

McLelland's take on the call........

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseb...and-call_N.htm

So in Tim McLelland's own words from the article above

"Michael Barrett stuck out his leg, but he didn't have it planted in the ground," McClelland said. "What I saw was Holliday kind of slide through that leg and touch the plate."

I now refer to my post on the top of page 2 of this thread where I asked

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Is it possible that Holiday's hand could have gotten under the cleats of F2? It almost looks like that is what happened!

Which is answered by Pete Booth

Originally Posted by petebooth

Ozzy, if that's what happened then McClelland would have signalled safe immediately. There would have been no need for him to wait. From the video, McClelland, didn't see a tag of the plate that's why the no signal. Then he gave the safe sign. It appears as though McClelland simply Froze on the call.

I am really surprised the Padres didn't go more ballistic on the play.

Bottom line last night's play is why MLB NEEDS Instant replay. Give Football credit regardless of what one thinks of IR.

Pete Booth

Disclaimer: I am not singling out Pete here, I am using his post as the example because he quoted me.

You see, this is typical of this site. We amateurs (myself included this time in a later post) are so caught up in ourselves that we think that we can out call the top guys! We boast that we won't jump on our partner's call because we are 90' away but we feel that through the magic of television , we can make a proper call thousands of miles away. And no, instant replay wouldn't have helped in this instance either. That is unless the camera was looking over McCelland's shoulder! Instant replay (in baseball) is just a cop out for poor officiating or people who just can't accept the call made by the officials.

Let this be a lesson to us - we should be as careful and cautious judging the pros as we claim to be with our own partners! In other words, practice what we preach!

Regards - al finis