MLB suspends Winters

[jkumpire]

1. If Bradley does not hurt his knee, is this a big deal for more than 24 hours?

2. If Winters is being grooved for a crew chief job, why would this take him out of it?

3. If the Pads were not in the playoff hunt, would this matter at all?

You see my point? This situation, and his suspension, has been moved only because the 1B coached accused an umpire of racism, which always gets some media people fired up. It's also big because the Pads are in the playoff hunt.

Since MLB is very inconsistent in how it judges rule violations, and even missed calls by umpires (i.e. the Cleveland/Baltimore protest earlier in the year), this is all a political response to media and ESPN publicity, IMO.

Was Winter's wrong? We really don't know, unless you assume the MLB thinks he cussed or baited Bradley, and that crossed a line. But since we have no record of what happened we can access, we really don't know what happened. Look men, Bradley didn't go off any worse than George Brett did at the Pine Tar game, and only slightly less than Rose did at Dave Pallone, except he had nobody to hold him back at the time.

We also know that the 1B coach of the Pads did change his story after the fact, quite frankly IMO because the media is always a useful tool to beat opponents over the head with in sports, and other places in our life too. To use an overused phrase, he threw Winters "under the bus" to protect his player.

It also seems to me that Winter's is doing what everyone is supposed to do in this "team" oriented umpiring rubric these days, stick your nose into your partner's business. In the past, if HP missed the bat toss, U1 wouldn't say anything, until the after the game, when the HP guy could find then know he had business to take care of later.

I feel really sorry for Bradley, his temper has ruined his career, from his first days in Cleveland until now. And maybe the worst thing about the situation is that he has someone other than himself to blame for being so hot-tempered and selfish that he did real damage to his team and teammates. So he looks at his knee and blames Mike Winters, not the face in the mirror.

If Winters is going to be crew chief, he still should be in the mix. He more or less kept his cool (though you might see that as beauty in the eyes of the beholder) in a bad situation. He was also straight with his crew chief, according to his crew chief, so to me he has shown the necessary judgment and self-control needed to be a crew chief. One small time incident like this shouldn't leave him out in the cold, unless the Emperor in NYC really has no clothes on.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by jkumpire

1. If Bradley does not hurt his knee, is this a big deal for more than 24 hours?

2. If Winters is being grooved for a crew chief job, why would this take him out of it?

3. If the Pads were not in the playoff hunt, would this matter at all?

You see my point? This situation, and his suspension, has been moved only because the 1B coached accused an umpire of racism, which always gets some media people fired up. It's also big because the Pads are in the playoff hunt.

I have had an opportunity to watch a lot of ESPN lately and I can tell you that the "racism" part of this story was not even a major blip on the screen for most of the media. There was more focus on what Winters said and the "baiting" of Bradley than any part of what the 1B coach claimed.

This story had legs more because the media likes to constantly rip on officials and highlight when they get in trouble. Just like when the situation with Joey Crawford took place. There is this position the media takes that officials do are not held to the same level of accountability as everyone else. This of course is not at all true, but that is the impression. It is funny how people that are so informed about things in sports never have a clue about any level of officiating. I have not even heard much about this part of the story that Bradley was the one that confronted Winters that started this whole thing. It is just a sexy story to blame the ump as usual.

Peace

[Andy]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

...There is this position the media takes that officials do are not held to the same level of accountability as everyone else. This of course is not at all true, but that is the impression...

Truer words have not been spoken.......

[SanDiegoSteve]

Of course officials are supposed to be held to higher standards and accountabilty than the participants. Why shouldn't they be? You just can't go around calling people a f-ing piece of sh!t, and that is all there is to it. That is the bottom line.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Of course officials are supposed to be held to higher standards and accountabilty than the participants. Why shouldn't they be? You just can't go around calling people a f-ing piece of sh!t, and that is all there is to it. That is the bottom line.

I think you are acting like such a homer you are not even paying attention to what anyone is really saying. And as far as I am concerned, players should not be using any language either, but that is another discussion for another day.

Peace

[gsf23]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I think you are acting like such a homer you are not even paying attention to what anyone is really saying. And as far as I am concerned, players should not be using any languageeither, but that is another discussion for another day.

Peace

Forgive me if I am wrong, but I haven't seen one report from anyone saying that Milton Bradley used profanity towards Winters BEFORE Winters called him a FPOS. Or are we all just ASSUMING that because it is Bradley and because Winters used profanity that Milton must have said something profane to Winters first? Until I see something that says Bradley directed some profanity towards Winters first, then what Winters said was wrong plain and simple and he got what he deserved.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by gsf23

Forgive me if I am wrong, but I haven't seen one report from anyone saying that Milton Bradley used profanity towards Winters BEFORE Winters called him a FPOS. Or are we all just ASSUMING that because it is Bradley and because Winters used profanity that Milton must have said something profane to Winters first? Until I see something that says Bradley directed some profanity towards Winters first, then what Winters said was wrong plain and simple and he got what he deserved.

I am not talking about this confrontation. I have no idea what was said. Unlike many others here, I have no idea what was said and do not claim that profanity was used by anyone. But there have been many taped arguments and language has been used by players and coaches in arguments. I seriously doubt that someone that has to be restrained as if someone is preventing them from fighting, is not using any "inappropriate language." I know that I have worked games and I have heard language used and I do not recall such that nice language was used. Remember, the report and Bradley admitted to confronting Winters first.

Peace

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by msavakinas

san diego steve:

are you telling me you've never used a profane word when in an argument with a coach?

The question wasn't directed at me, but I'll proudly admit that in 30 years of umpiring, I've never sworn at a manager/coach/player. The only time I've used profanity is if I said something like, "Did you just tell me I was full of schit?" or when I repeat to a manager/coach what his ejected player said that got him ejected.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by msavakinas

san diego steve:

are you telling me you've never used a profane word when in an argument with a coach?

What, are you being intentionally obtuse or something?

I never said that profanity was bad to use. I said that personal comments calling someone a profane name are not to be used.

Have you even bothered to read any of my other posts? I said that Winters could have said "shut the f*** up" and he would have been alright.

Yeah, I've occasionally used profanity, but in 21 years of umpiring never once called anyone a f****** piece of sh!t, either.

One time I said to an arguing HS coach, "Dave, that's bullsh!t and you know it." I got reprimanded by my association for using profanity. This was way back in 1988.

In adult leagues, where cussing is acceptable, you still don't call people nasty names.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

In adult leagues, where cussing is acceptable, you still don't call people nasty names.

Even if its true?

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I think you are acting like such a homer you are not even paying attention to what anyone is really saying.

That is just too stupid for words, so I won't waste any.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

That is just too stupid for words, so I won't waste any.

It must not be too stupid, you responded.

Peace

[GarthB]

Like I said, times have changed. If the Haller/Weaver tete a tete happened today, Haller would be suspended for saying "F*ck you, Earl."

Umpires, players and managers all had salty language and no one cried to mommy about it and no one lied about it, playing the race card. The San Diego first base coach set a new low for rats.

No more. MLB wants the umpires to clean up their act. Unfortunately F*cking pieces of sh!t like Bradley don't have to, but that's the game today. The umpires have been put on notice and they will simply have to play the game under the new rules.

Have I used profanity? Sure. I've told whining adult league batters to shut up and get in the f*ckin' box more than once. Suspend me.

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by jkumpire

1. If Bradley does not hurt his knee, is this a big deal for more than 24 hours?

2. If Winters is being grooved for a crew chief job, why would this take him out of it?

3. If the Pads were not in the playoff hunt, would this matter at all?

You see my point? This situation, and his suspension, has been moved only because the 1B coached accused an umpire of racism, which always gets some media people fired up. It's also big because the Pads are in the playoff hunt.

Since MLB is very inconsistent in how it judges rule violations, and even missed calls by umpires (i.e. the Cleveland/Baltimore protest earlier in the year), this is all a political response to media and ESPN publicity, IMO.

Was Winter's wrong? We really don't know, unless you assume the MLB thinks he cussed or baited Bradley, and that crossed a line. But since we have no record of what happened we can access, we really don't know what happened. Look men, Bradley didn't go off any worse than George Brett did at the Pine Tar game, and only slightly less than Rose did at Dave Pallone, except he had nobody to hold him back at the time.

We also know that the 1B coach of the Pads did change his story after the fact, quite frankly IMO because the media is always a useful tool to beat opponents over the head with in sports, and other places in our life too. To use an overused phrase, he threw Winters "under the bus" to protect his player.

It also seems to me that Winter's is doing what everyone is supposed to do in this "team" oriented umpiring rubric these days, stick your nose into your partner's business. In the past, if HP missed the bat toss, U1 wouldn't say anything, until the after the game, when the HP guy could find then know he had business to take care of later.

I feel really sorry for Bradley, his temper has ruined his career, from his first days in Cleveland until now. And maybe the worst thing about the situation is that he has someone other than himself to blame for being so hot-tempered and selfish that he did real damage to his team and teammates. So he looks at his knee and blames Mike Winters, not the face in the mirror.

If Winters is going to be crew chief, he still should be in the mix. He more or less kept his cool (though you might see that as beauty in the eyes of the beholder) in a bad situation. He was also straight with his crew chief, according to his crew chief, so to me he has shown the necessary judgment and self-control needed to be a crew chief. One small time incident like this shouldn't leave him out in the cold, unless the Emperor in NYC really has no clothes on.

Your post is not consistent with the facts.

There is a record of what happened...from the interviews MLB did with Winters, Bradley, the coach and the first basemen. There is absolutely no doubt that Winters baited Bradley or Winters would not have been suspended.

It makes absolutely no difference to the penalty what the status of the pennant race is or, for that matter, that Bradley was hurt.

There is no excuse for any umpire, let alone a professional one, to bait a player into an ejection.

Winters was not accused of racism, he was found guilty of being profane and abusive.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

Winters was not accused of racism, he was found guilty of being profane and abusive.

Your post is not consistent with the facts.

Meacham accused Winters of a "racial comment" in his first comments to the media. He later changed that to a comment that "could be taken" as a racial comment. He later dropped the allegation all together when the F3 was called to testify.