MLB suspends Winters

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

Winter's actions demean all of us umpires.

Using his power to bait a player, even a bad actor like Milton Bradley, is despicable. Ejections should be penalties for bad behavior, not for responding to insults.

Winters should be fired.

Wow. You feel personally demeaned by this?

Good Lord, good thing you weren't around in the 70's.

Winters has been punished for his role in this. And his punishment may very well be long lasting. He was being, according to some, groomed to be a crew chief in the future. Most likely, that's gone.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by GarthB

Winters has been punished for his role in this. And his punishment may very well be long lasting. He was being, according to some, groomed to be a crew chief in the future. Most likely, that's gone.

I agree. I think he also won't work the playoffs this year, although we'll neve know whether that's punishment or he wasn't scheduled to work anyway.

My guess is that Bradley won't have any additional suspension -- the time he's out because of the injury is penalty enough, although he'll likley be fined. (And again, we likley won't know all the details here).

[UMP25]

Bob, from what I've been told, Mr. Winters was scheduled to work post-season. Whether he remains on the schedule is unknown.

[jkumpire]

1. If Bradley does not hurt his knee, is this a big deal for more than 24 hours?

2. If Winters is being grooved for a crew chief job, why would this take him out of it?

3. If the Pads were not in the playoff hunt, would this matter at all?

You see my point? This situation, and his suspension, has been moved only because the 1B coached accused an umpire of racism, which always gets some media people fired up. It's also big because the Pads are in the playoff hunt.

Since MLB is very inconsistent in how it judges rule violations, and even missed calls by umpires (i.e. the Cleveland/Baltimore protest earlier in the year), this is all a political response to media and ESPN publicity, IMO.

Was Winter's wrong? We really don't know, unless you assume the MLB thinks he cussed or baited Bradley, and that crossed a line. But since we have no record of what happened we can access, we really don't know what happened. Look men, Bradley didn't go off any worse than George Brett did at the Pine Tar game, and only slightly less than Rose did at Dave Pallone, except he had nobody to hold him back at the time.

We also know that the 1B coach of the Pads did change his story after the fact, quite frankly IMO because the media is always a useful tool to beat opponents over the head with in sports, and other places in our life too. To use an overused phrase, he threw Winters "under the bus" to protect his player.

It also seems to me that Winter's is doing what everyone is supposed to do in this "team" oriented umpiring rubric these days, stick your nose into your partner's business. In the past, if HP missed the bat toss, U1 wouldn't say anything, until the after the game, when the HP guy could find then know he had business to take care of later.

I feel really sorry for Bradley, his temper has ruined his career, from his first days in Cleveland until now. And maybe the worst thing about the situation is that he has someone other than himself to blame for being so hot-tempered and selfish that he did real damage to his team and teammates. So he looks at his knee and blames Mike Winters, not the face in the mirror.

If Winters is going to be crew chief, he still should be in the mix. He more or less kept his cool (though you might see that as beauty in the eyes of the beholder) in a bad situation. He was also straight with his crew chief, according to his crew chief, so to me he has shown the necessary judgment and self-control needed to be a crew chief. One small time incident like this shouldn't leave him out in the cold, unless the Emperor in NYC really has no clothes on.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by jkumpire

1. If Bradley does not hurt his knee, is this a big deal for more than 24 hours?

2. If Winters is being grooved for a crew chief job, why would this take him out of it?

3. If the Pads were not in the playoff hunt, would this matter at all?

You see my point? This situation, and his suspension, has been moved only because the 1B coached accused an umpire of racism, which always gets some media people fired up. It's also big because the Pads are in the playoff hunt.

I have had an opportunity to watch a lot of ESPN lately and I can tell you that the "racism" part of this story was not even a major blip on the screen for most of the media. There was more focus on what Winters said and the "baiting" of Bradley than any part of what the 1B coach claimed.

This story had legs more because the media likes to constantly rip on officials and highlight when they get in trouble. Just like when the situation with Joey Crawford took place. There is this position the media takes that officials do are not held to the same level of accountability as everyone else. This of course is not at all true, but that is the impression. It is funny how people that are so informed about things in sports never have a clue about any level of officiating. I have not even heard much about this part of the story that Bradley was the one that confronted Winters that started this whole thing. It is just a sexy story to blame the ump as usual.

Peace

[Andy]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

...There is this position the media takes that officials do are not held to the same level of accountability as everyone else. This of course is not at all true, but that is the impression...

Truer words have not been spoken.......

[SanDiegoSteve]

Of course officials are supposed to be held to higher standards and accountabilty than the participants. Why shouldn't they be? You just can't go around calling people a f-ing piece of sh!t, and that is all there is to it. That is the bottom line.

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by jkumpire

1. If Bradley does not hurt his knee, is this a big deal for more than 24 hours?

2. If Winters is being grooved for a crew chief job, why would this take him out of it?

3. If the Pads were not in the playoff hunt, would this matter at all?

You see my point? This situation, and his suspension, has been moved only because the 1B coached accused an umpire of racism, which always gets some media people fired up. It's also big because the Pads are in the playoff hunt.

Since MLB is very inconsistent in how it judges rule violations, and even missed calls by umpires (i.e. the Cleveland/Baltimore protest earlier in the year), this is all a political response to media and ESPN publicity, IMO.

Was Winter's wrong? We really don't know, unless you assume the MLB thinks he cussed or baited Bradley, and that crossed a line. But since we have no record of what happened we can access, we really don't know what happened. Look men, Bradley didn't go off any worse than George Brett did at the Pine Tar game, and only slightly less than Rose did at Dave Pallone, except he had nobody to hold him back at the time.

We also know that the 1B coach of the Pads did change his story after the fact, quite frankly IMO because the media is always a useful tool to beat opponents over the head with in sports, and other places in our life too. To use an overused phrase, he threw Winters "under the bus" to protect his player.

It also seems to me that Winter's is doing what everyone is supposed to do in this "team" oriented umpiring rubric these days, stick your nose into your partner's business. In the past, if HP missed the bat toss, U1 wouldn't say anything, until the after the game, when the HP guy could find then know he had business to take care of later.

I feel really sorry for Bradley, his temper has ruined his career, from his first days in Cleveland until now. And maybe the worst thing about the situation is that he has someone other than himself to blame for being so hot-tempered and selfish that he did real damage to his team and teammates. So he looks at his knee and blames Mike Winters, not the face in the mirror.

If Winters is going to be crew chief, he still should be in the mix. He more or less kept his cool (though you might see that as beauty in the eyes of the beholder) in a bad situation. He was also straight with his crew chief, according to his crew chief, so to me he has shown the necessary judgment and self-control needed to be a crew chief. One small time incident like this shouldn't leave him out in the cold, unless the Emperor in NYC really has no clothes on.

Your post is not consistent with the facts.

There is a record of what happened...from the interviews MLB did with Winters, Bradley, the coach and the first basemen. There is absolutely no doubt that Winters baited Bradley or Winters would not have been suspended.

It makes absolutely no difference to the penalty what the status of the pennant race is or, for that matter, that Bradley was hurt.

There is no excuse for any umpire, let alone a professional one, to bait a player into an ejection.

Winters was not accused of racism, he was found guilty of being profane and abusive.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

Winters was not accused of racism, he was found guilty of being profane and abusive.

Your post is not consistent with the facts.

Meacham accused Winters of a "racial comment" in his first comments to the media. He later changed that to a comment that "could be taken" as a racial comment. He later dropped the allegation all together when the F3 was called to testify.

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by GarthB

Your post is not consistent with the facts.

Meacham accused Winters of a "racial comment" in his first comments to the media. He later changed that to a comment that "could be taken" as a racial comment. He later dropped the allegation all together when the F3 was called to testify.

The facts were determined by MLB by interviewing the people involved, not by reading the newspapers.

Blaming the first base coach may make you feel better.

But Winters was the one punished.

[mattmets]

Originally Posted by msavakinas

they said he will not have any playoffs this year due to the suspension. my guess is though that he wasn't scheduled because he worked the world series last year. maybe goyanksgonj has some insight into this?...

Last year's WS doesn't preclude him from working post-season this year. Mike is a damn good umpire and should be working play-off games, if not for this suspension.