MLB suspends Winters

[mattmets]

Haller also told him he would be in the Hall of Fame "for what, *ucking up World Series, Earl?"

Such a personal attack today would probably get an umpire hung!

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

Winters career might well be over. In addition we do not know if MLB wanted to get "get rid of some umpires" and was looking for any valid reason to do so.

From where are you getting any of this? Why should this be anything more than a routine suspension? I can't see MLB turning this into any more than it already is. Mike Winters has a previously unblemished career and is an outstanding umpire. I can't really see MLB wanting to "get rid" of one of their finer officials.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

From where are you getting any of this? Why should this be anything more than a routine suspension? I can't see MLB turning this into any more than it already is. Mike Winters has a previously unblemished career and is an outstanding umpire. I can't really see MLB wanting to "get rid" of one of their finer officials.

I agree, and hope we're both right.

However, I do believe this puts a future crew chief position for Mike out of the question, effectively giving him a career long punishment and fine.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by mattmets

Haller also told him he would be in the Hall of Fame "for what, *ucking up World Series, Earl?"

Such a personal attack today would probably get an umpire hung!

I still don't see the similarity between using a word in a conversation (which your example is, not a personal attack), and using the word in a personal description of someone. Doesn't anyone understand that name-calling is totally different from just using a bad word in a sentence?

"You're horsesh*t" and "you're a piece of horsesh*t" are two TOTALLY DIFFERENT THINGS.

I'm sure Weaver thought what Haller said was funny as hell. I thought it was when I first heard it years ago. I don't recall Haller calling Weaver a "*ucking piece of sh!t" or I would have remembered it.

There is also a thing called context. Even if Haller had called Weaver a name, Weaver probably would have just called Haller a name back. You don't call a player with a reputation as an explosive hothead a name to which he is certainly going to react violently.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

I still don't see the similarity between using a word in a conversation (which your example is, not a personal attack), and using the word in a personal description of someone. Doesn't anyone understand that name-calling is totally different from just using a bad word in a sentence?

You don't think "You ain't no phuckin' good" is personal? I think if Winters had said that to him, Bradley would have gone off just as he did.

I'm sure Weaver thought what Haller said was funny as hell.

You'd be wrong to think that. Weave hated Haller and said so several times. He complained to the league numerous time, both trying to get Haller transfrered and fired.

There is also a thing called context. Even if Haller had called Weaver a name, Weaver probably would have just called Haller a name back. You don't call a player with a reputation as an explosive hothead a name to which he is certainly going to react violently.

Now you want umpires to be responsible for the actions of the players. Even if they act the part, players aren't babies. They need to be held accountable for their own actions. Being an explosive hothead is no reason to be allowed to be an explosive hothead, even for phuckin piece of sh!t like Bradley.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Garth, there is a big difference between saying "you're no (whatever) good" and "you're a (whatever) piece of (whatever).

A coach can tell me I'm no f-ing good and all he will get is ejected.

The same coach calls me a f-ing piece of sh!t is likely to see me sometime later and be spitting out chiclets.

I guess I'm just a piece of sh!t like Bradley, because I probably would have wanted to punch Winters too if he had called me that.

[PeteBooth]

From my response above

Winters career might well be over.

I was simply expressing an opinion based upon the fact that Winters is suspended. At this point all we know is that Winters is done for the season and playoffs.

How can you call this a routine suspension when an umpire is suspended for not only the remainder of the season but playoffs as well.

A "routine suspension" is a game or 2 not the rest of the season and playoffs.

Winters suspension is more than simply routine which prompted my comment. Also, let's get real here. Competition for MLB umpires jobs is very competetive so what are the odds on Winters getting a crew chief position and also working next years playoffs?

Pete Booth

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

A coach can tell me I'm no f-ing good and all he will get is ejected.

The same coach calls me a f-ing piece of sh!t is likely to see me sometime later and be spitting out chiclets.

I guess I'm just a piece of sh!t like Bradley, because I probably would have wanted to punch Winters too if he had called me that.

I doubt that you are that similar to Bradley, but we certainly look at some things differently.

Both of the statements would get the same result from me, an ejection. I put violent replies to verbal attacks aside a long time ago.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Like I have previously posted, I have been suspended for much longer for much less. I don't think this suspension is out of line. If they had just suspended him for the remaining few games of the season, what good would that have done? That would be like a slap on the wrist.

I don't see any reason why Winters won't be in the playoffs next year. As for crew chief, I don't know.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by GarthB

I put violent replies to verbal attacks aside a long time ago.

I don't wanna grow up, I'm a Toys 'R' Us kid.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by GarthB

I agree, and hope we're both right.

However, I do believe this puts a future crew chief position for Mike out of the question, effectively giving him a career long punishment and fine.

I was under the impression that Winters was going to receive Froemming's CC position. You may be right. If so, that's a shame.

Back in 1998, Sam Holbrook ejected Mark McGwire during his run on the home run record. In 1999, Holbrook was repaid by having his resignation be one of the ones accepted. It took him a while to get back his job.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

I don't wanna grow up, I'm a Toys 'R' Us kid.

In my world, people who choose to respond to verbal taunts with physical violence go to jail for assault. (And no, FED does not have a penalty for "verbal assault." )

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by mbyron

In my world, people who choose to respond to verbal taunts with physical violence go to jail for assault. (And no, FED does not have a penalty for "verbal assault." )

Well then, it's a good thing I was so f*cking good at my job that nobody ever called me anything (at least to my face), so that theory never got tested.

[Dave Reed]

Several posters have said that Meachem initially alledged racial remarks, and then later softened his stance, and have characterized this as lying.

Does anyone have a link which quotes Meachem claiming that racial remarks were made? The closest that I am aware of is a report in the San Diego Union-Tribune. http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniont...s24padres.html
"Asked whether what Winters said had racial overtones, Meacham, who, like Bradley, is black, replied, “It smacked of that tone.”

I have trouble seeing this as anything other than Meachem expressing an impression, and it hardly qualifies as "lying." In fact his impression might be accurate; only those who were there are even entitled to have an opinion on the tone of the "discussion." I can see, however, ESPN or others reporting this as a racial allegation, and then later "backing off" their reporting.

Anybody know of a more definitive quote?

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by Dave Reed

"Asked whether what Winters said had racial overtones, Meacham, who, like Bradley, is black, replied, “It smacked of that tone.”

I have trouble seeing this as anything other than Meachem expressing an impression, and it hardly qualifies as "lying."

1. I would disagree. That statment by Meacham, to me, is that what Winter's said smacked of racial overtones. Compared to what he later said when he quoted what was said, that was a lie.

2. Unfortunately, often when ESPN and FOX update an ongoing story on their website. (indidated by the tag they put under the blyline, e.g. "updated 3 hours ago") they give the updated story the same URL as the original, thus the original is not saved to their site.

They were two of the outlets that reported that Meacham gave two references to race, the first being that Winters' comments were racial, the second being that Winter's comment could be taken as racial. Only after MLB got involved did both FOX and ESPN report that Meacham's story changed again so that there was no reference to race and instead he began giving the exact quote.

Additionally, the quote was reported on ESPN's Sports Center and Around The Horn.