unsportsmanlike ?

[CraigD]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

8-4-2 is indeed a stretch. The yelling of balk was intended to cause the pitcher to balk, not prevent a play on the runner.

Steve,

Is intent relevant? You seem to suggest that if there was no intent to prevent R1 from being put out, then 8-4-2g isn't applicable. I'm not getting that argument.

In any case, wouldn't this be a HTBT situation? None of us has any idea if the pitchers change of delivery influenced the catcher's probability of retiring R1 at second.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by CraigD

Steve,

Is intent relevant? You seem to suggest that if there was no intent to prevent R1 from being put out, then 8-4-2g isn't applicable. I'm not getting that argument.

In any case, wouldn't this be a HTBT situation? None of us has any idea if the pitchers change of delivery influenced the catcher's probability of retiring R1 at second.

I didn't mean to say there was or wasn't intent. The rule that makes it illegal to yell "time" or any other phrase or command addresses the intent to cause a pitcher to balk. I just don't think that just yelling "balk" alone would necessarily "prevent" R1 from being put out. Yes, you would have to be there to judge what effect the yelling of "balk" actually had on the play.

If I hear someone yell "balk" from the dugout, I'm killing the ball and ejecting someone if I know who did it, or warning said dugout if I don't. I no wise will bases be run, or plays made on anyone. I'm sending the runner back to 1st in any case.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

If I hear someone yell "balk" from the dugout, I'm killing the ball and ejecting someone if I know who did it, or warning said dugout if I don't. I no wise will bases be run, or plays made on anyone. I'm sending the runner back to 1st in any case.

It's definitely a HTBT, Steve, but I hear offensive players and their coaches yell "balk" a lot when they see a questionable move by F1, and I let it go. Now, if I felt it inticed the pitcher to committ a balk then I would eject whomever hollered it out.


Tim.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

It's definitely a HTBT, Steve, but I hear offensive players and their coaches yell "balk" a lot when they see a questionable move by F1, and I let it go. Now, if I felt it inticed the pitcher to committ a balk then I would eject whomever hollered it out.

Tim, I nip that yelling "balk" crap off right away. I inform them that the umpires will do all the calling of balks and that we don't appreciate any help with it. It has never failed to stop the yelling of "balk."

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Tim, I nip that yelling "balk" crap off right away. I inform them that the umpires will do all the calling of balks and that we don't appreciate any help with it. It has never failed to stop the yelling of "balk."

Then you have never called ball in the South, Sup. Managers sit up at nights thinking of ways to bend the rules.

E.g. East Cobb-Atlanta coach, high powered program, multi-million $$$ private fields, has his players running in the outfield warning track, between innings, during the inning when there is "Time". On dead balls. Teh during play.

You call him on this practice, then when the opposing coach sends his F1 to the bullpen with practice F2 from the dugout while the ball is live............

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by fitump56

E.g. East Cobb-Atlanta coach, high powered program, multi-million $$$ private fields, has his players running in the outfield warning track, between innings, during the inning when there is "Time". On dead balls. Teh during play.

Any umpire that would allow this isn't worth the price of their shoelaces.


Tim.

[fitump56]

[

Originally Posted by fitump56

E.g. East Cobb-Atlanta coach, high powered program, multi-million $$$ private fields, has his players running in the outfield warning track, between innings, during the inning when there is "Time". On dead balls. Then he has them run when they are on O. Then while the ball is live, he screams bloody murder when the opposing team runns from the dugout to the warmup pen, F1/F2..

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

Any umpire that would allow this isn't worth the price of their shoelaces.
Tim.

Bold statement, Bigg, now justify the difference in calling his players for running the track in a dead ball, when there is a T-Out, and not calling down the opposing players who enter the field when the ball is live.

[lawump]

Originally Posted by fitump56

E.g. East Cobb-Atlanta coach, high powered program, multi-million $$$ private fields, has his players running in the outfield warning track, between innings, during the inning when there is "Time". On dead balls. Teh during play.

(Assuming you're talking about the East Cobb AAU (private) program, and not some high school team

Here in South Carolina my association umpires a lot of AAU (and the like) tournaments during the Summer and Fall. (And we do have a lot of tournaments...for instance, Charleston has three NCAA Division 1 schools, one of which has 2 home fields...so its a great town to have a tournament).

Anyways, I can say with very high confidence that no head coach of any visiting (out-of-state) program has been ejected more often and more consistently by members of my association than the East Cobb head coach...for pulling **** like this.

Frankly, we have 10-15 Division 1 college umpires in our association that umpire these fall tournaments...and they (we) won't put up with that ****.

I, personally, have never tossed him...he's been quiet the three times I've had him...so as of right now I have no problems with him.

I don't know how many total times he's been tossed by us...However, I've heard the multiple war stories from fellow association members...and, thus, I'm always prepared to shut him down immediately should anything start up.

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by fitump56

E.g. East Cobb-Atlanta coach, high powered program, multi-million $$$ private fields, has his players running in the outfield warning track, between innings, during the inning when there is "Time". On dead balls. Teh during play.

Originally Posted by lawump

(Assuming you're talking about the East Cobb AAU (private) program, and not some high school team

Yep, Gerry Baldwin and his troops to be specific. I was referring to his anitcs in particular.

Here in South Carolina my association umpires a lot of AAU (and the like) tournaments during the Summer and Fall. (And we do have a lot of tournaments...for instance, Charleston has three NCAA Division 1 schools, one of which has 2 home fields...so its a great town to have a tournament).

Anyways, I can say with very high confidence that no head coach of any visiting (out-of-state) program has been ejected more often and more consistently by members of my association than the East Cobb head coach...for pulling **** like this.

I tossed Gerry twice in one DH. He started on me re: a balk call I "missed" from the game before. I was PU for this game and I warned him I let him go to finish but "Nope" he had to push the point. He is roundly considered psychotic on the field. So I sent him to cook hotdogs, come Game Two, deja vu, I tossed him as he started the same crying song as soon as he left the dugout.

Frankly, we have 10-15 Division 1 college umpires in our association that umpire these fall tournaments...and they (we) won't put up with that ****.

Tell them Congrats, toss him for fitump56!

I, personally, have never tossed him...he's been quiet the three times I've had him...so as of right now I have no problems with him.

I don't know how many total times he's been tossed by us...However, I've heard the multiple war stories from fellow association members...and, thus, I'm always prepared to shut him down immediately should anything start up.

Only way, don't give him an inch, not a millimeter. His umps in EC are hand picked to take his crap and let him essentially cheat. To keep umps, he has to pay them $15 or more per game over the going rate.

Off field, Gerry is OK and he is super sharp on the diamond. But he and 2 or 3 dozen more come from that EC/Atlanta Southern genre that umps are made to be hard-worked, humiliated, and intimidated.

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by CraigD

Steve,
Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve
8-4-2 is indeed a stretch. The yelling of balk was intended to cause the pitcher to balk, not prevent a play on the runner.
Is intent relevant? You seem to suggest that if there was no intent to prevent R1 from being put out, then 8-4-2g isn't applicable. I'm not getting that argument.

In any case, wouldn't this be a HTBT situation? None of us has any idea if the pitchers change of delivery influenced the catcher's probability of retiring R1 at second.

Intent is irrelevant, probable cause and cause is.