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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Thu Aug 09, 2007, 12:11pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay R
I saw this. It was late in Tuesday's game, maybe the 8th inning? Certainly after Clemens was ejected because I tuned in just after that.

The description was accurate. A batter was at the plate, Hernandez had the lineup card in his hand. He looked at it after the first pitch, then again after the second and finally he put it away and took his indicator out his pocket. Only umpires probably noticed anyhting strange about that.

Bottom of the eighth, first two pitches to the first batter.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Thu Aug 09, 2007, 12:34pm
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Just a guess, but he probably was verifying lineup changes from between innings, and was checking the batting order.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Thu Aug 09, 2007, 12:44pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UmpLarryJohnson
I see that lookin at a card was a big deal..,,its a new prespective for me.
Not a big deal. You minimized it when Tuss brought it up, I just brought the perspective that it was an unneeded distraction and unprofessional.

If you think holding the card in hand and looking at it between pitches is helpful and a good way to manage the game then say so.
  #19 (permalink)  
Old Thu Aug 09, 2007, 01:03pm
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didnt say that butim not going to crucifya guy in public for lookin at a lineup card twice for a totalof prolly 10 secs in the coarse of a 3 hr ballgame. sorry get yourraw meat somewhere else.
  #20 (permalink)  
Old Thu Aug 09, 2007, 01:28pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UmpLarryJohnson
didnt say that butim not going to crucifya guy in public for lookin at a lineup card twice for a totalof prolly 10 secs in the coarse of a 3 hr ballgame. sorry get yourraw meat somewhere else.
Pointing out unusual behavior that is improper is neither crucifying or carniverous.
Is Angel your little brother or what?

(Edited to help SDS understand toungue in cheek comment)


Because Larry Hernandez's I mean Johnson's comments were so intense regarding my mild aversion to Angel's lineup card infatuation,
I asked a toungue in cheek question to point out that his response may have bordered on overkill.

Last edited by Don Mueller; Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 04:40pm.
  #21 (permalink)  
Old Thu Aug 09, 2007, 03:47pm
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Johnson...Hernandez...hmmmm. I'm guessing not.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Thu Aug 09, 2007, 11:40pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TussAgee11
Angel uses a modified GD with his hands tucked under his crotch and his elbows on his thighs. Watching the Yankees/Toronto game I saw a pitch that Angel called a ball, then rose, and I swear I saw the lineup card in his hands. It was confirmed when he then looked at the card. Next pitch, did the same thing...

I know its nitpicking, but giving away coaches hats, etc., MLB has to find a way to keep some of these guys in line. For the most part its self policed among the umpires but Angel takes some things to new levels.
Reviewed the game on MLB and Hernandez did have the line-up card in his hand on the first two pitches of the bottom of the 8th, using the time between pitches to mark changes.

Why this is a big deal is beyond me.
  #23 (permalink)  
Old Fri Aug 10, 2007, 12:52am
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Yes, beyond me as well. Thank you for the explanation.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Fri Aug 10, 2007, 10:53am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimpiano

Why this is a big deal is beyond me.
It's not a BIG deal.

It is

1. A method of game administration that no one teaches or endorses
2. A method of game administration that any evaluator would make a critical comment on.
3. A method of game administration that takes the concentration and focus away from the task at hand.
4. An oddity worth noting. I personally have never seen any umpire at any level do their paperwork between pitches and during live ball action.

Whether or not Angels actions in this case adversely affected the game is not the issue, he should have spent the extra 10 or 15 seconds before the inning started, finnished his between inning responsibilities and move on.

This isn't questioning one of the god's of umpiring judgement calls. It's game Ad. 101

Is there anyone on the forum that does their paperwork during live ball action?
  #25 (permalink)  
Old Fri Aug 10, 2007, 12:37pm
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We all like quick games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Mueller
It's not a BIG deal.

It is

1. A method of game administration that no one teaches or endorses
2. A method of game administration that any evaluator would make a critical comment on.
3. A method of game administration that takes the concentration and focus away from the task at hand.
4. An oddity worth noting. I personally have never seen any umpire at any level do their paperwork between pitches and during live ball action.

Whether or not Angels actions in this case adversely affected the game is not the issue, he should have spent the extra 10 or 15 seconds before the inning started, finnished his between inning responsibilities and move on.

This isn't questioning one of the god's of umpiring judgement calls. It's game Ad. 101

Is there anyone on the forum that does their paperwork during live ball action?
Perhaps Mr. Hernandez didn't want to have the first 15 seconds of the inning having thousands of folks in the stands and the television audience waiting for him to do his paperwork.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Fri Aug 10, 2007, 01:16pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Mueller
Whether or not Angels actions in this case adversely affected the game is not the issue, he should have spent the extra 10 or 15 seconds before the inning started, finnished his between inning responsibilities and move on.

Is there anyone on the forum that does their paperwork during live ball action?
Is there anyone on this forum who routinely has the timing of his actions and his subsequent evaluations influenced by billion-dollar television contracts?
  #27 (permalink)  
Old Fri Aug 10, 2007, 07:14pm
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If it helps any, he did it again in the 9th inning.

I understand that he had to make changes, but a pitching change? Do it between innings? A different batter was coming up? Change it after the batter. To hold a card while calling pitches, very strange.

What if he had to use a check swing or foul tip mechanic?

It's not THAT big of a deal, but its noteworthy as just another thing an MLB ump does (non mechanic wise) that we shouldn't be doing.
  #28 (permalink)  
Old Fri Aug 10, 2007, 10:35pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Mueller
It's not a BIG deal.

It is

1. A method of game administration that no one teaches or endorses
2. A method of game administration that any evaluator would make a critical comment on.
3. A method of game administration that takes the concentration and focus away from the task at hand.
4. An oddity worth noting. I personally have never seen any umpire at any level do their paperwork between pitches and during live ball action.

Whether or not Angels actions in this case adversely affected the game is not the issue, he should have spent the extra 10 or 15 seconds before the inning started, finnished his between inning responsibilities and move on.

This isn't questioning one of the god's of umpiring judgement calls. It's game Ad. 101

Is there anyone on the forum that does their paperwork during live ball action?
I see it is a big deal for you.

Angel Hernandez's accomplishments as a professional umpire are a matter of record.

Please let us know when you get your World Series assignment.

And I confess to having fiddled with lineup cards several times during live ball action.

I feel better knowing that the best of the best do it, too.
  #29 (permalink)  
Old Sat Aug 11, 2007, 07:13pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lawump
Second, MLB doesn't agree with the evaluations of Angel that most of us internet umpires have posted...as reflected by the number of post-season assignments he has received. Simply put...he's one of the best Ques-Tec umpires in MLB.

...

Since 2000 he has worked: 2 Division Series; 4 LCS; and 2 World Series. Someone thinks he's doing a pretty good job.
I thought that the new system rotates all MLB umps through the playoffs. Not a merit-based assignment any longer.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Sat Aug 11, 2007, 07:44pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyron
I thought that the new system rotates all MLB umps through the playoffs. Not a merit-based assignment any longer.
Post season assignments in MLB are based on performance during the year.
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