obstruction on a pickoff ?

[FTVMartin]

If he is blocking the base during the pickoff attempt, isn't that considered "in the act of making a play." We allow catchers to do it at the plate so why not a first baseman?

[DG]

Originally Posted by FTVMartin

If he is blocking the base during the pickoff attempt, isn't that considered "in the act of making a play." We allow catchers to do it at the plate so why not a first baseman?

A play has to be imminent at the plate for a catcher to be able to block the plate without the ball. That generally means the thrown ball is in fllight and nearly at the plate, over the dirt cutout part is generally considered imminent since the cutout is about 13' in diameter.

Likewise at 1B a play would have to be imminent. If F3 is blocking the bag when the pitcher starts to make a move then a play is not imminent because the ball hasn't even been thrown yet. So it's obstruction if the runner can't get to the bag.

[FTVMartin]

But the if the contact doesn't happen until the ball is nearly to the base then we have an immenent play. If a catcher is standing in the baseline while the ball is at the cutoff man of course it's obstruction but we don't have obstruction unless the runner is obstructed. By the time the pitcher makes his move and the starts coming back to first, the 1B is already in the act of making the play. Why is it now obstruction?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by FTVMartin

But the if the contact doesn't happen until the ball is nearly to the base then we have an immenent play. If a catcher is standing in the baseline while the ball is at the cutoff man of course it's obstruction but we don't have obstruction unless the runner is obstructed. By the time the pitcher makes his move and the starts coming back to first, the 1B is already in the act of making the play. Why is it now obstruction?

Part of this depends on the rules set being used. In LL (iirc), NCAA and FED (starting next year) F3 (and any fielder) must have the ball before he can block the base (yeah -- I know that's not the exact wording).

In pure OBR, and FED this year, a play must be imminent. That's generally interpreted as the ball being in flight. So, R1 could be obstructed while F1 is making a pick-off if the obstruction happens before the ball is released.

[_Bruno_]

lets say the pitcher steps off very quick and fakes a throw to 1b . the runner dives back and into F3 and R1 CANNOT reach the base cause F3 blocks it intentional/unintentional. is this obstruction ? i mean F1 becomes a regular fielder and so he just fakes a throw to 1b.....
obstruction R1 -> 2nd base ?

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by _Bruno_

lets say the pitcher steps off very quick and fakes a throw to 1b . the runner dives back and into F3 and R1 CANNOT reach the base cause F3 blocks it intentional/unintentional. is this obstruction ? i mean F1 becomes a regular fielder and so he just fakes a throw to 1b.....
obstruction R1 -> 2nd base ?

I vote for: If there's no throw there is no play so there is no obstruction.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

I vote for: If there's no throw there is no play so there is no obstruction.

I agree! All this "what if" stuff is ridiculous!

[ManInBlue]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

I vote for: If there's no throw there is no play so there is no obstruction.

What about ball hit to the outfiled, BR runs into F3? That's obstruction...no play being made on the runner -OR- R2 runs into F5 on a grounder to the right side - same thing here.

OBR has 2 different situations - OBS without play being made on the runner, you wait for play to end, then enforce the OBS if needed. OBS while play is being made - kill it immediately and enforce. FED says kill it regardless of type/time of OBS.

Throw or not you can have OBS on the pick off. It's a judgment as to whether or not F3 has the "right" to block the bag.

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Part of this depends on the rules set being used. In LL (iirc), NCAA and FED (starting next year) F3 (and any fielder) must have the ball before he can block the base (yeah -- I know that's not the exact wording).

In pure OBR, and FED this year, a play must be imminent. That's generally interpreted as the ball being in flight. So, R1 could be obstructed while F1 is making a pick-off if the obstruction happens before the ball is released.

Well said, Sir (suck up, suck up).

Did you not mean "after" release? Regardless, there is solid argument under certain rulesets, especially those where the emphasis is on player's safety, that an obvious blocking position should be handled by the umpire by relating the positioning to OBS, in either a discreet ot indirect way, that this blocking will be considered OBS.

[_Bruno_]

saw this situation during the cubs-cardinals game last night.
little roller down the 1stbase line, the pitcher runs toward the line and picked the ball up when it was foul and almost collides with BR.

now whats the ruling if the pitcher collides with the runner and the ball rolles (untouched) foul.

is the pitcher in the act of fielding oder is he simply chasing the ball ? does it makes a difference if obstruction occurs with a fair/foul ball ?

could this be obstroction although the ball was rolling foul ?

[ozzy6900]

ManInBlue

You could have the potential for obstruction anytime. Obstruction does not occur until the runner is prevented or hindered by the defense.


Here's what Rich Ives is referring to:

R1 being held by F3, R1 leading off. F3 is blocking the entire path back to 1st. Now as long as there is no attempt to retire R1, the two can stand like that all day and nothing is wrong! But, the minute F1 or F2 throw the ball to F3 and R1 is unable to get back because of F3's position, that would be the obstruction.

The original stitch stated that the coach was crying for an obstruction call when there was no effort to retire R1.

Regards

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by _Bruno_

could this be obstroction although the ball was rolling foul ?

First off, the fielder is protected on a batted ball, so you wouldn't have obstruction here in any case, the issue would be whether the BR has interfered.

But now let me ask you: how has the BR interfered if the ball is foul? Exactly what has the BR hindered by making contact with F1 on a rolling ball that is clearly foul?

Naturally, in other cases (pop foul or ball rolling on the line, for instance) interference IS possible.

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by _Bruno_

saw this situation during the cubs-cardinals game last night.
little roller down the 1stbase line, the pitcher runs toward the line and picked the ball up when it was foul and almost collides with BR.

now whats the ruling if the pitcher collides with the runner and the ball rolles (untouched) foul.

is the pitcher in the act of fielding oder is he simply chasing the ball ? does it makes a difference if obstruction occurs with a fair/foul ball ?

could this be obstroction although the ball was rolling foul ?

It doesn't matter if the ball eventually goes foul, the key is when contact was made was F1 the protected fielder and was the ball fair at contact?
If the answers are yes then most likely you have inteference. There could be some judgement as to whether F1 could have reached the ball before it went foul but I would give much leeway in this sitch to F1.