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Old Mon Jul 23, 2007, 08:08am
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obstruction on a pickoff ?

hi,
situation :
F3 is standing right infront of 1stbase, i mean in the line between 1st and 2nd when the pitcher comes to set. the basecoach calls for time and says "he can't stay there cause my runner has to dive "around" F3 on a pickoff". is there a rule that prohibits F3 from standing in the direct line between 1st and 2nd or would this be obstruction and i send the runner to 2ndbase ?
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Old Mon Jul 23, 2007, 08:14am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Bruno_
hi,
situation :
F3 is standing right infront of 1stbase, i mean in the line between 1st and 2nd when the pitcher comes to set. the basecoach calls for time and says "he can't stay there cause my runner has to dive "around" F3 on a pickoff". is there a rule that prohibits F3 from standing in the direct line between 1st and 2nd or would this be obstruction and i send the runner to 2ndbase ?
F3 can stand where ever he wants. It's not obsruction until R1 is illegally hindered in his base running. So far, all we have is R1 taking (or at least being allowed to take) the same lead he'd take if F3 were playing "normally."
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Old Mon Jul 23, 2007, 08:15am
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No rule prevents F3 from standing where he is.

Yes, there is potential OBS on a pickoff play or on R1's advance to 2B. Let the player(s) make the mistakes and then react.

Ace
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Old Tue Jul 24, 2007, 07:23pm
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If he is blocking the base during the pickoff attempt, isn't that considered "in the act of making a play." We allow catchers to do it at the plate so why not a first baseman?
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Old Tue Jul 24, 2007, 07:35pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FTVMartin
If he is blocking the base during the pickoff attempt, isn't that considered "in the act of making a play." We allow catchers to do it at the plate so why not a first baseman?
A play has to be imminent at the plate for a catcher to be able to block the plate without the ball. That generally means the thrown ball is in fllight and nearly at the plate, over the dirt cutout part is generally considered imminent since the cutout is about 13' in diameter.

Likewise at 1B a play would have to be imminent. If F3 is blocking the bag when the pitcher starts to make a move then a play is not imminent because the ball hasn't even been thrown yet. So it's obstruction if the runner can't get to the bag.
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Old Tue Jul 24, 2007, 07:45pm
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Question

But the if the contact doesn't happen until the ball is nearly to the base then we have an immenent play. If a catcher is standing in the baseline while the ball is at the cutoff man of course it's obstruction but we don't have obstruction unless the runner is obstructed. By the time the pitcher makes his move and the starts coming back to first, the 1B is already in the act of making the play. Why is it now obstruction?
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Old Tue Jul 24, 2007, 08:30pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FTVMartin
But the if the contact doesn't happen until the ball is nearly to the base then we have an immenent play. If a catcher is standing in the baseline while the ball is at the cutoff man of course it's obstruction but we don't have obstruction unless the runner is obstructed. By the time the pitcher makes his move and the starts coming back to first, the 1B is already in the act of making the play. Why is it now obstruction?
Part of this depends on the rules set being used. In LL (iirc), NCAA and FED (starting next year) F3 (and any fielder) must have the ball before he can block the base (yeah -- I know that's not the exact wording).

In pure OBR, and FED this year, a play must be imminent. That's generally interpreted as the ball being in flight. So, R1 could be obstructed while F1 is making a pick-off if the obstruction happens before the ball is released.
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Old Wed Jul 25, 2007, 09:04am
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lets say the pitcher steps off very quick and fakes a throw to 1b . the runner dives back and into F3 and R1 CANNOT reach the base cause F3 blocks it intentional/unintentional. is this obstruction ? i mean F1 becomes a regular fielder and so he just fakes a throw to 1b.....
obstruction R1 -> 2nd base ?
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Old Wed Jul 25, 2007, 10:28am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Bruno_
lets say the pitcher steps off very quick and fakes a throw to 1b . the runner dives back and into F3 and R1 CANNOT reach the base cause F3 blocks it intentional/unintentional. is this obstruction ? i mean F1 becomes a regular fielder and so he just fakes a throw to 1b.....
obstruction R1 -> 2nd base ?

I vote for: If there's no throw there is no play so there is no obstruction.
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Old Wed Jul 25, 2007, 10:36am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Ives
I vote for: If there's no throw there is no play so there is no obstruction.
I agree! All this "what if" stuff is ridiculous!
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Old Wed Jul 25, 2007, 12:38pm
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Hey Oz, quit stuttering.
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Old Wed Jul 25, 2007, 03:39pm
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That would be obstruction since there is no play. In FED you send him to 2B.
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Old Wed Jul 25, 2007, 03:56pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FTVMartin
That would be obstruction since there is no play. In FED you send him to 2B.
If there is no play ... there is nothing to obstruct. Fielder/runner contact is not necessarily anything.
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Old Wed Jul 25, 2007, 07:11pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyron
Hey Oz, quit stuttering.
We had a server/power issue at work. I was down most of the day so I never saw the multiple posts. I deleted them sssssoo it ddddidn't lllllllllook like I was sssssstttttuddering.

RRRRRRRReggggards!
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Old Wed Jul 25, 2007, 09:07pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Ives
I vote for: If there's no throw there is no play so there is no obstruction.
What about ball hit to the outfiled, BR runs into F3? That's obstruction...no play being made on the runner -OR- R2 runs into F5 on a grounder to the right side - same thing here.

OBR has 2 different situations - OBS without play being made on the runner, you wait for play to end, then enforce the OBS if needed. OBS while play is being made - kill it immediately and enforce. FED says kill it regardless of type/time of OBS.

Throw or not you can have OBS on the pick off. It's a judgment as to whether or not F3 has the "right" to block the bag.
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