I Guess I Deserved it, or Maybe Not.....

[lawump]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Don,

Please don't even try to say that you have never hollered at an umpire before, because I'm just not buying it.

I admit it: as a child I yelled at umpires.

I have never yelled at any umpire since the day I became one. EVER. I've had discussions with them after the game, WHEN I'M THERE EVALUATING THEM FOR OUR ASSOCIATION...but if I'm there just as a fan (i.e. my son's games) I just let it go.

If you want to call me a liar go ahead, that's simply a crutch to justify your own behavior.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by lawump

I admit it: as a child I yelled at umpires.

I have never yelled at any umpire since the day I became one. EVER. I've had discussions with them after the game, WHEN I'M THERE EVALUATING THEM FOR OUR ASSOCIATION...but if I'm there just as a fan (i.e. my son's games) I just let it go.

If you want to call me a liar go ahead, that's simply a crutch to justify your own behavior.

You're telling me you've never booed along with your buddies at a major league baseball game? You just sat there and said nothing. Wow, that's restraint.

When I umpire, I fully expect to be booed, as it is rich in tradition of this grand game.

[lawump]

I've been known to get popcorn and peanuts thrown at me when my family (diehard Red Sox fans) are at a baseball game and they're all screaming at the umpire and I'm defending him.

Frankly, as for MLB, maybe because I knew or know enough of them from my days in pro ball...it makes it pretty hard for me to boo and or yell at them. Its always easier to yell at a stranger than someone you lived and traveled with for 6 months, or who was in your umpire class, or was in the same minor league as you or was your teacher/mentor at umpire school and after.

In all my time in pro ball there was only 1 guy who I couldn't stand and in whom I found no redeeming qualities...we nearly came to blows one spring...but while I hope to God he doesn't get promoted from the reserve list ahead of some other persons on that list...I still can't bring myself to boo him.

[Tim C]

"In all my time in pro ball there was only 1 guy who I couldn't stand and in whom I found no redeeming qualities...we nearly came to blows one spring . . ."

I guess every class has one of "these guys" (@ Brinkman it was a minor league instructor that lied, cheated and attempted intentionally to place certain students in a bad light).

I took care of ours (while there were no blows I did push him in the chest hard enough that he lost his balance).

Since that January anyone in our class has always called "problem umpires": "Oh he's just a Whitehead.")

Just for the record I don't even cheer at professional games so there would be no reason to comment on the umpire's qualities.

I Like Turtles,

[lawump]

Tim C,

Frankly, I can't go to ANY game and watch it as a "fan". When the ball is in play, I'm always watching the umpires anyways.

From one Brinkman grad to another,

[Tim C]

Maybe it is you that needs to learn to read:

I thought I was clear when I said the bravery was to:

1) Originally face the issue knowing well he could be in trouble for what he did and,

2) Being brave enough to bring this issue to our attention to discuss.

I did not say, nor did I mean to say, the discussion items were brave.

Again, we just can't agree on umpiring and that is fine as we will never, thankfully, work a game together.

I Like Turtles,

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by Tim C

Maybe it is you that needs to learn to read:

I thought I was clear when I said the bravery was to:

1) Originally face the issue knowing well he could be in trouble for what he did and,

Does this mean he's brave for being unsportsmanlike or he's brave for admitting he was unsportsmanlike?
I'm not too clear
2) Being brave enough to bring this issue to our attention to discuss.

I did not say, nor did I mean to say, the discussion items were brave.

Again, we just can't agree on umpiring and that is fine as we will never, thankfully, work a game together.

I Like Turtles,

I'm sorry Tim, this is the quote I first read and responded too.
Maybe I'm dense but this says nothing about being brave enough to come to a discussion board.

Originally Posted by Tim C

1- Life is about choices. Tim selected to support his son and made a choice to handle it as he did. While I would never place myself in his position I do support him making the choice he did . . . he did something rather than nothing . . . that takes a certain amount of bravery.

But I am glad that you now see it my way and don't put yelling at umpires in the class of bravery!!

We've found our first common ground...Parents yelling at umpires is not brave.

There's hope for us yet Tim

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

You're telling me you've never booed along with your buddies at a major league baseball game? You just sat there and said nothing. Wow, that's restraint.

When I umpire, I fully expect to be booed, as it is rich in tradition of this grand game.

Not in many, many years. I do sometimes wonder what thay saw.

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

JR, please explain how misinterpreting a rule is basically a judgment call.

Maybe the umpire "saw" the pitcher step off with the correct foot. Maybe he was confused. Maybe he blinked at that moment. Maybe he chose that moment to ogle a GLM.

None of those are "excuses" but I know I've (likely) missed a call fro some unexplanable reason -- case in point: HS Regional game. I'm PU. R2 scores; defense appeals he missed third. I can see (in my mind's eye) R2 approaching third. I can see him leaving third. I have no effin' idea whether he touched third, so I denied the appeal. Dugout went nuts. I'm "sure" I missed it. I have no idea what happened in that stretch.

[BigUmp56]

I knew when I started the thread there would be many of you that would jump my arse. Truth is I'm glad you did because I deserved it. I already knew there was no excuse for what I did, and believe me, I'm not asking any of you to excuse it. I was wrong...wrong...wrong for saying a word to the guy. I did it though and that cannot be changed. The point of the thread, if there is just one point, is to find out what my brothers in blue think about this guy seeking me out before a game two years after I gave him a hard time in order to issue a threat to me. We talk all the time about starting a game involving a coach we've recently dumped with a new slate. It just didn't seem right to me for him to seek me out and issue issue a pre-game warning to a parent.


Tim.

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

We talk all the time about starting a game involving a coach we've recently dumped with a new slate. It just didn't seem right to me for him to seek me out and issue issue a pre-game warning to a parent.


Tim.

You are NOT a coach on the field to extend that kind of courtesy to. You are a sports official. Again, I probably would have done worse!

I am glad that you at least realize HOW wrong it was to do.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by rei

You are NOT a coach on the field to extend that kind of courtesy to. You are a sports official. Again, I probably would have done worse!

I am glad that you at least realize HOW wrong it was to do.

Yes, I'm a sports official, but first and foremost I'm a parent. Before you once again puff out your chest and tell me how much you would have done, let me ask you a simple question. Do you have any of your own sons that play the game of baseball? If so, have you ever seen them called out on a manifestly wrong call in a game that was very important to them?



Tim.

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

Yes, I'm a sports official, but first and foremost I'm a parent. Before you once again puff out your chest and tell me how much you would have done, let me ask you a simple question. Do you have any of your own sons that play the game of baseball? If so, have you ever seen them called out on a manifestly wrong call in a game that was very important to them?



Tim.

Nope, no kids of my own. But I have coached girlfriends kids, and have had a vested interest in their success.

What bugs me is that YOU have the responsibility to handle this situation correctly, you didn't, you admit it, but you are still trying to justify it. What that tells me is that you don't really have any sincerity in your admission that you did anything wrong. That fact that you even question where you deserved his response or not tells me the same thing.

You should really think that all through. Your one little comment that you made to make yourself feel better for a brief amount of time caused a LOT of grief to a fellow official, and possibly made his job harder to perform because of it's slanderous nature from an "expert" (which is what bias parents of teammates of you son believe you to be, even though they should know better than to think you can have ANY kind of unbiased outlook on the situation while your son is playing... ).

Then you come on here blasting him some more. What is next? You gonna post his name so we can all seek him out to heckle him during a game?

You are in NO position to defend yourself. You crack open ANY Code of Ethics for ANY of the rule books you ump games under, and I am sure there will be something about your publicly criticizing and/or making disparaging comments about a fellow official.

Trying to defend it on an internet BBS more or less convinces me that you might be just a TAD bit crazy!

[UmpJM]

I would guess that it is well known in his community that Tim is an umpire. So, when he made his disparaging comment to the umpire who made the incorrect call during his son's game, I would guess that to many who heard it at the time, his comment was that of an experienced official (rather than just the mindless drivel of a clueless parent, frequently and regularly heard at youth baseball games).

As such, as Tim obviously knows and has freely admitted, his comments were certainly inappropriate.

However, for the umpire to hold a grudge for over TWO YEARS over a comment made during a youth baseball game and to accost a fan and threaten him before a game is obscenely unprofessional, most certainly conduct unbecoming an umpire, and an infantile response to the situation.

Umpires should conduct themselves like umpires when they arrive at a game site and completely ignore fans unless their conduct affects the progress of the game - even if their feelings were hurt during a game two years ago.

JM