partner????? i guess not...

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by DonInKansas

Actually, any INT at 2B on a possible double play ball is the PU's call. You're supposed to be following the ball to 1B.

Well Don, he said that he was the plate umpire, and the INT at 2nd was his call. The BU is supposed to be following the ball to 1B.

I would not want to work with any umpire who doesn't have the balls to stand up to any game participants. He should have been insuring you a one-on-one conversation with whoever was in charge after each ejection, not standing out at "A" chewing seeds and kicking dandelions. A good partner has your back regardless of what he thinks of your calls on the field.

[newump]

thanks SDS. i was PU, and obviously, it was my call.


if F6 eats the ball and does not make the throw to 1st b/c of the INT - i imagine that call is open to PU or BU - right?

[DonInKansas]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Well Don, he said that he was the plate umpire, and the INT at 2nd was his call. The BU is supposed to be following the ball to 1B.

D'oh...re-read it, and saw I skimmed over the first words. All I saw was "out near the mound," so I guess I assumed he was BU. Guess this round's on me.....

[Jim Porter]

You know, I'm thinking about this even more because I'm perplexed, and I can even remember learning the mechanics quite clearly. Not only was I taught to clear the catcher and move up the third base line as PU, but I was also taught as BU not to drift and anticipate the back-end of the double play so that I would be in position to see and call any possible interference.

I've never heard of a PU clearing the catcher and coming out to the pitcher's mound. I've also never heard that the PU's responsible for interference on the front end of a double play. Both of those are news to me.

Is this a result of me coming from a backward OBR state? Or have I been doing it wrong for 20-something years?

[socalblue1]

Originally Posted by Jim Porter

You know, I'm thinking about this even more because I'm perplexed, and I can even remember learning the mechanics quite clearly. Not only was I taught to clear the catcher and move up the third base line as PU, but I was also taught as BU not to drift and anticipate the back-end of the double play so that I would be in position to see and call any possible interference.

I've never heard of a PU clearing the catcher and coming out to the pitcher's mound. I've also never heard that the PU's responsible for interference on the front end of a double play. Both of those are news to me.

Is this a result of me coming from a backward OBR state? Or have I been doing it wrong for 20-something years?

Jim,

You were never taught the correct mechanic. PU clears F2 to left and drifts up the 3B line (Normal coverage in case R1 goes to 3B on base hit or error, etc). Once the out is made at 2B, PU cuts across toward 1B OR retreats toward HP to cover pulled foot/swipe tag at 1B. PU has interference responsibility at 2B at same time, as BU will have stepped and turned with throw to 1B.

[Jim Porter]

Originally Posted by socalblue1

Jim,

You were never taught the correct mechanic. PU clears F2 to left and drifts up the 3B line (Normal coverage in case R1 goes to 3B on base hit or error, etc). Once the out is made at 2B, PU cuts across toward 1B OR retreats toward HP to cover pulled foot/swipe tag at 1B. PU has interference responsibility at 2B at same time, as BU will have stepped and turned with throw to 1B.

I was taught exactly as you described, right up until the part where you said, "PU has interference responsibility at 2B at same time".

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Jim Porter

I was taught exactly as you described, right up until the part where you said, "PU has interference responsibility at 2B at same time".

The NFHS and NCAA have additional restrictions on the runner sliding -- must be at the base or away from the fielder. Hence, the PU is expected to bust out from the plate and get to the side of the mound in order to rule on this force-play slide rule. There are differences in the NFHS and NCAA code, but the expectations on the plate umpire are the same.

Being from a non-FED state, you never would've been exposed to the FPSR.

I'm not surprised that PBUC is splitting responsibility, but the likelihood of INT happening after the throw in an OBR game is small.

[VanStanza]

I'm certain that no where in the PBUC manual does it avise that it is the PU's responsibility to make the INT call at 2nd. It's true that if the PU sees the INT, then he may call it, but he should be nowhere near the mound in this situation. Unhitch the piano, and haul you butt to the holding area (library) at 3rd base.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by VanStanza

I'm certain that no where in the PBUC manual does it avise that it is the PU's responsibility to make the INT call at 2nd. It's true that if the PU sees the INT, then he may call it, but he should be nowhere near the mound in this situation. Unhitch the piano, and haul you butt to the holding area (library) at 3rd base.

Why? The BU has all plays on balls that stay in the infield, including a subsequent play at third base.

Wouldn't PBUC recommend the PU trailing up the FIRST base line and look for pulled tags and swipe feet and other such squirrels?

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

Why? The BU has all plays on balls that stay in the infield, including a subsequent play at third base.

Wouldn't PBUC recommend the PU trailing up the FIRST base line and look for pulled tags and swipe feet and other such squirrels?

What I've learned this year from having the priviledge of speaking with four new MiLB umpires and one AA umpire who worked at PBUC is that what PBUC teaches and what PBUC writes are often two different things.

It would be nice if they were consistent, but from what I've seen, that would require annual, and at times, mid-season rewrites of the manual.

Currently, PBUC, on infield batted balls with R1 only, instructs that the PU has any play at third, on that rare occasion that R1 can run 180 feet on an infield batted ball. (He does NOT, however, have that same responsibility with R1/R3 as he would with a ball to the outfield.)

In the play that started this thread I have been told that primary, or first call responsibility belongs to BU but that PU can make a call absent one from BU.

[Jim Porter]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

Why? The BU has all plays on balls that stay in the infield, including a subsequent play at third base.

Wouldn't PBUC recommend the PU trailing up the FIRST base line and look for pulled tags and swipe feet and other such squirrels?

It used to be under PBUC mechanics that the PU had the second play on the infield at third base. That I do know. Once the out at second occurred the PU would bust back for swipe/pulled duties on the first base line. I couldn't say if that's true today.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Jim Porter

It used to be under PBUC mechanics that the PU had the second play on the infield at third base. That I do know. Once the out at second occurred the PU would bust back for swipe/pulled duties on the first base line. I couldn't say if that's true today.

Even that was a big flip-flop. At first it was the recommended mechanics, with "advanced crews" allowed to let the BU take both ends. Now, it's the reverse.

I think.

Anyway, in my games, I come up the side of the mound and watch the slide at second. I can always take R1 to third if something strange happens.

[DG]

Originally Posted by Jim Porter

I'm perplexed, and I can even remember learning the mechanics quite clearly. Not only was I taught to clear the catcher and move up the third base line as PU, but I was also taught as BU not to drift and anticipate the back-end of the double play so that I would be in position to see and call any possible interference.

I've never heard of a PU clearing the catcher and coming out to the pitcher's mound. I've also never heard that the PU's responsible for interference on the front end of a double play. Both of those are news to me.

What you describe is the red book mechanics, but the red book umpires do not have to call the FPSR. The CCA mechanic is for PU to go to 3B side of the mound to assist U1 if needed on a slide at 2b (ie FPSR violation) and then step toward 1B for a secondary responsibility on assistance on swipe tag or pulled foot. This is of course on batted balls to the infield, if the batted ball is near the line or in front of the plate, the PU must stay home to rule on Fair/Foul and to rule on possible running lane violation.

[Jim Porter]

Originally Posted by DG

What you describe is the red book mechanics, but the red book umpires do not have to call the FPSR.

Right, and through my entire career I did not have to call the FPSR. It all makes sense now.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by GarthB

Steve, for God's sake stop "quoting" PWL, Steven Tyler, Fitump or whatever he calls himself today. Many of us have him on ignore and we'd like to keep him there. It is amusing how he can try to pretend to be new to the board and then recite history about you that goes beyond his "join" date. What DF.

You concern yourself with things that you don't even know what you're talking about. There wasn't a law against reading the forum before I joined. Personally, I have noticed some new members that are very familiar to some of the current ones. Hell, I couldn't care less.

IMO, it is others stirring up trouble. I will continuously avoid any references and replies to others that feel the need to instigate. Please feel free to keep me on your ignore list. Rule 2. to a successful life-GET ONE!