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Old Sat Jun 23, 2007, 09:45am
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You could see it coming.

Worked on a recently renovated high school field yesterday. The one item that stood out over all others was the new RF foul pole. It was placed two feet inside the foul line.

Third inning, I was in A and the batter hit a shot down the line. I went out on it. The ball went out to the right of the foul pole and to the left of the foul line. I signaled homerun. As anticipated, 50% of the fans thought I was blind.

The home coach later informed me that he had complained to the district about the placement of the pole only to be told that they didn't have the funds to "replant" it.

That should guarantee some exciting moments for some time.
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Old Sat Jun 23, 2007, 10:12am
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Booster

After that call goes against the home team a couple of times the booster club might be able to come up with the funds for the district.

Interesting post. You answered a question that I had after seeing a bent metal foul pole on a youth field in which my son had recently played.
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Old Sat Jun 23, 2007, 12:05pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GarthB
Worked on a recently renovated high school field yesterday. The one item that stood out over all others was the new RF foul pole. It was placed two feet inside the foul line.

Third inning, I was in A and the batter hit a shot down the line. I went out on it. The ball went out to the right of the foul pole and to the left of the foul line. I signaled homerun. As anticipated, 50% of the fans thought I was blind.

The home coach later informed me that he had complained to the district about the placement of the pole only to be told that they didn't have the funds to "replant" it.

That should guarantee some exciting moments for some time.
Was the foul pole discussed during the pre-game? We always seem to have fields lined incorrectly, even at the varsity level. First base and third base are anchored to the inside of line.
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Old Sat Jun 23, 2007, 01:12pm
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Huh?

"First base and third base are anchored to the inside of line."

Let me be the first to admit the following:

I have no idea what your post means.

Regards,
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jun 23, 2007, 01:28pm
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"First base and third base are anchored to the inside of line."

He means the bases are anchored in the usual positions, but the foul lines are incorrectly drawn so that the inside of the lines are placed at the outer edge of the bags. This is sometimes done because the field crew believes that foul lines are supposed to be in foul territory.
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Old Sat Jun 23, 2007, 02:37pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Reed
"First base and third base are anchored to the inside of line."

He means the bases are anchored in the usual positions, but the foul lines are incorrectly drawn so that the inside of the lines are placed at the outer edge of the bags. This is sometimes done because the field crew believes that foul lines are supposed to be in foul territory.
You got it!!!
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Old Mon Jun 25, 2007, 03:42am
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[quote=GarthB]Worked on a recently renovated high school field yesterday. The one item that stood out over all others was the new RF foul pole. It was placed two feet inside the foul line.
{/quote]
Interested to know how this was handled pre-game since you noiced it then. What was the interp? did the coaches agree or did you God Rule?
Quote:
Third inning, I was in A and the batter hit a shot down the line. I went out on it. The ball went out to the right of the foul pole and to the left of the foul line. I signaled homerun.
As per pre-game. ok, good call.
Quote:
As anticipated, 50% of the fans thought I was blind.
Wow, I can't remember when I had a 50-50 split on any field but I defer to your experience, of course.
Quote:
The home coach later informed me that he had complained to the district about the placement of the pole only to be told that they didn't have the funds to "replant" it.
He didn't mention this in pre-game? Coaches can be such boors.
Quote:
That should guarantee some exciting moments for some time.
Not really, how often will this come up?
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Old Mon Jun 25, 2007, 07:49am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GarthB
Worked on a recently renovated high school field yesterday. The one item that stood out over all others was the new RF foul pole. It was placed two feet inside the foul line.

Third inning, I was in A and the batter hit a shot down the line. I went out on it. The ball went out to the right of the foul pole and to the left of the foul line. I signaled homerun. As anticipated, 50% of the fans thought I was blind.

The home coach later informed me that he had complained to the district about the placement of the pole only to be told that they didn't have the funds to "replant" it.

That should guarantee some exciting moments for some time.
The coach should have the district draw the lines so they go from the edge of the outfield grass to the pole. Sure, it's not quite a straight line, but 2' off over 200' distance is not going to be too noticeable.
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Old Mon Jun 25, 2007, 10:40am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins
The coach should have the district draw the lines so they go from the edge of the outfield grass to the pole. Sure, it's not quite a straight line, but 2' off over 200' distance is not going to be too noticeable.
Are you suggesting that you take away any number of doubles and triples from kids that hit what should be fair balls on the line and are now foul in order to avoid an argument on what might be 1 or 2 calls a year?

I'd rather have a true foul line and give the kids their due on the dozens of hits per season that are close and in the park than take away those hits so as to cover my butt on the 1 or 2 HRs a year that will be affected by the misplaced foul pole.
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Old Mon Jun 25, 2007, 11:44am
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Oh, well if the difference between a diamond with an 89.9* angle and one with a 90* angle makes such a huge difference to the "kids," let's open it up to, what, 95*? Why stop there? We could widen the field to 120* - just think how many triples kids could hit with such a wide field!

I had no idea that the objective was to maximize the number of extra bases. Heck, we could bring the fence in to do that.

[/sarcasm]
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Old Mon Jun 25, 2007, 11:46am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Reed
"First base and third base are anchored to the inside of line."

He means the bases are anchored in the usual positions, but the foul lines are incorrectly drawn so that the inside of the lines are placed at the outer edge of the bags. This is sometimes done because the field crew believes that foul lines are supposed to be in foul territory.
I had a call that didn't result in an ejection that was the polar opposite of this situation. The base anchors were too close to the foul lines, so the 1st and 3rd base bags extended two or three inches into foul territory. With nobody on, a bunt rolled up the third base line about 6 inches in fair territory almost all the way to the base, where just before the base it took a little turn, completely crossed the foul line into foul ground and hit the corner of the bag. I was only five feet away and ruled foul ball. The head coach and I had a little go-round, and although he was hopping mad ("How can it be foul? It hit the freakin' base!") he eventually accepted my explanation that the ball hitting a base being ruled fair presumes the bases are properly located.

During a little between innings conversation, he wanted to know how I would know exactly where a line shot over the bag crossed, and I said in that instance I'm just ruling fair because I'll be 90 feet away and won't be able to tell.

GarthB's ruling was correct. A ball that leaves the yard in flight over fair ground is a home run. That's what happened, regardless of where the foul pole is.
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Old Mon Jun 25, 2007, 05:53pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyron
Oh, well if the difference between a diamond with an 89.9* angle and one with a 90* angle makes such a huge difference to the "kids," let's open it up to, what, 95*? Why stop there? We could widen the field to 120* - just think how many triples kids could hit with such a wide field!
If the baseball rules gave the latitude of 90-120 then I'm all for it, as it is the rules say 90 not 89.9 and not 95. By taking 2 feet of fair territory away at the fence and 1 foot away 40 paces from the infield you will be significantly changing many games.

I put it in terms of how many hits would be taken away by changing the foul line because I believe the game is about the players, ususally kids, and I don't think it's necessary to take away many hits to protect the ump on one call a year.



Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyron
I had no idea that the objective was to maximize the number of extra bases.
What is the objective of the 89.9 angle? To eliminate a possible argument that may happen twice on that field all year?

Is your motivation to make it easy for you or to be a fair arbiter of the game?



Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyron
Heck, we could bring the fence in to do that.
Many MLB parks have done just that

Last edited by Don Mueller; Mon Jun 25, 2007 at 05:55pm.
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Old Mon Jun 25, 2007, 06:18pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyron
Oh, well if the difference between a diamond with an 89.9* angle and one with a 90* angle makes such a huge difference to the "kids," let's open it up to, what, 95*? Why stop there? We could widen the field to 120* - just think how many triples kids could hit with such a wide field!

I had no idea that the objective was to maximize the number of extra bases. Heck, we could bring the fence in to do that.

[/sarcasm]
Yes, and let's implement an " everyone plays, everyone hits, everyone scores" rule also. That'll make little Johnny feel even better about himself.
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Old Tue Jun 26, 2007, 07:50am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GarthB
Worked on a recently renovated high school field yesterday. The one item that stood out over all others was the new RF foul pole. It was placed two feet inside the foul line.

Third inning, I was in A and the batter hit a shot down the line. I went out on it. The ball went out to the right of the foul pole and to the left of the foul line. I signaled homerun. As anticipated, 50% of the fans thought I was blind.

The home coach later informed me that he had complained to the district about the placement of the pole only to be told that they didn't have the funds to "replant" it.

That should guarantee some exciting moments for some time.
Could have avoided the whole arguement if it was mentioned at the plate conference.

We have some diamonds where the bases are simply nailed into the ground and first and third "float" around. In those situations, I always tell the coaches that we're playing the foul lines but also playing the bases wherever they are. This avoids the situation where the base is sitting a couple of inches in foul territory and the ball hits the base in foul territory. (They already know it is a fair ball, play on)

As the thread title states, "You could see it coming", if that is the case then tell the coaches at the start of the game to avoid this situation.
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Old Tue Jun 26, 2007, 11:20am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tibear
Could have avoided the whole arguement if it was mentioned at the plate conference.

We have some diamonds where the bases are simply nailed into the ground and first and third "float" around. In those situations, I always tell the coaches that we're playing the foul lines but also playing the bases wherever they are. This avoids the situation where the base is sitting a couple of inches in foul territory and the ball hits the base in foul territory. (They already know it is a fair ball, play on)

As the thread title states, "You could see it coming", if that is the case then tell the coaches at the start of the game to avoid this situation.
First, this was covered at the plate conference. We explained that the foul lines had priority over the foul pole. The title I chose referred only to "if it can happen, it will happen."

Unfortunately, the fans were not aware of the situation until the fly ball to RF. And, while, there are many calls the leave half the fans unhappy, in this particular case nearly all the fans thought the umpires made a mistake, but half were happy that they did.
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