A little help please...

[RPatrino]

DG, please explain the difference between (TOP) "time of pitch" and "when the pitch leaves the hand". In the case of my question, I was unsure if the rule implied that the catcher can't move until the pitcher has started his pitching motion vs. on release of the ball.

I called a balk this past season because the catcher, prior to the pitcher beginning any pitching delivery, moved toward second base and recieved the "pitch" in the vicinity of the top line of the left handed batters box. Of course the coach insisted it was a pitch out, and I told him I saw it differently. Maybe I was splitting hairs, but my thought process revolved around that if every catcher was allowed to move prior to a pitch and receive it 5-10 feet in front of the plate, then no runner would ever steal second again.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

A balk can be called by the actions of a catcher. ... The balk is credited to the pitcher, however, so it's not "called" on the catcher.

The balk is called on the pitcher because he is the one who commits the infraction, namely pitching when F2 is not positioned correctly. This is not a mere scorekeeping technicality, and the term "catcher's balk" is misleading if it suggests that a catcher can balk all by himself.

But it's not a made up rule (well, they're ALL made up at some point, but this one, like many others, is in the book...).

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by stevecatcher34

I am a catcher and have been for 12 years "

This has nothing to do with knowing the rules.

[DG]

Originally Posted by RPatrino

DG, please explain the difference between (TOP) "time of pitch" and "when the pitch leaves the hand". In the case of my question, I was unsure if the rule implied that the catcher can't move until the pitcher has started his pitching motion vs. on release of the ball.

I called a balk this past season because the catcher, prior to the pitcher beginning any pitching delivery, moved toward second base and recieved the "pitch" in the vicinity of the top line of the left handed batters box. Of course the coach insisted it was a pitch out, and I told him I saw it differently. Maybe I was splitting hairs, but my thought process revolved around that if every catcher was allowed to move prior to a pitch and receive it 5-10 feet in front of the plate, then no runner would ever steal second again.

TOP is when the pitcher makes his first move that commits him to pitch. Picture the pitcher in the windup position with hands together in front of his body. When he starts a movement to raise his hands towards his head TOP has occurred because he is now committed to pitch. Quite a few movements later is when the ball leaves the hand.

On your balk call, the catcher can leave before TOP except when an intentional walk is being given, such as for a pitchout. The catcher can not catch the ball in front of the plate, that would be interference with the batter's right to swing at a pitch and batter is awarded 1B and any runners stealing on the pitch are awarded the advance base if not forced to do so by BR award to 1B. It sounds like in your case he did not so the balk does not appear appropriate in this case. In your case the pitch was in the other batter's box so it does not sound like he caught it 5-10 feet in front of the plate. You took a defensive tool away from the defense.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by RPatrino

DG, please explain the difference between (TOP) "time of pitch" and "when the pitch leaves the hand". In the case of my question, I was unsure if the rule implied that the catcher can't move until the pitcher has started his pitching motion vs. on release of the ball.

I called a balk this past season because the catcher, prior to the pitcher beginning any pitching delivery, moved toward second base and recieved the "pitch" in the vicinity of the top line of the left handed batters box. Of course the coach insisted it was a pitch out, and I told him I saw it differently. Maybe I was splitting hairs, but my thought process revolved around that if every catcher was allowed to move prior to a pitch and receive it 5-10 feet in front of the plate, then no runner would ever steal second again.

4.03
When the ball is put in play at the start of, or during a game, all fielders other than the catcher shall be on fair territory.
(a) The catcher shall station himself directly back of the plate. He may leave his position at any time to catch a pitch or make a play except that when the batter is being given an intentional base on balls, the catcher must stand with both feet within the lines of the catcher’s box until the ball leaves the pitcher’s hand.
PENALTY: Balk.
(b) The pitcher, while in the act of delivering the ball to the batter, shall take his legal position;
(c) Except the pitcher and the catcher, any fielder may station himself anywhere in fair territory;
(d) Except the batter, or a runner attempting to score, no offensive player shall cross the catcher’s lines when the ball is in play.

[DG]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

4.03
When the ball is put in play at the start of, or during a game, all fielders other than the catcher shall be on fair territory.
(a) The catcher shall station himself directly back of the plate. He may leave his position at any time to catch a pitch or make a play except that when the batter is being given an intentional base on balls, the catcher must stand with both feet within the lines of the catcher’s box until the ball leaves the pitcher’s hand.
PENALTY: Balk.
(b) The pitcher, while in the act of delivering the ball to the batter, shall take his legal position;
(c) Except the pitcher and the catcher, any fielder may station himself anywhere in fair territory;
(d) Except the batter, or a runner attempting to score, no offensive player shall cross the catcher’s lines when the ball is in play.

What is your point? I have a rule book so you don't need to cut and paste. Make your point.

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by RPatrino

I called a balk this past season because the catcher, prior to the pitcher beginning any pitching delivery, moved toward second base and recieved the "pitch" in the vicinity of the top line of the left handed batters box. Of course the coach insisted it was a pitch out, and I told him I saw it differently. Maybe I was splitting hairs, but my thought process revolved around that if every catcher was allowed to move prior to a pitch and receive it 5-10 feet in front of the plate, then no runner would ever steal second again.

Good call and one that makes common sense regardless of the rule interp. If F2 is allowed at will to move before the pitch is either on delivery or leaves hand, this has to be a violation. If not, then let F1 com eset and F2 can position wherever.

Arguing silly semantical ambiguities in rule interps is for umpires who have to go to field with assurance that they have the backing of . so that they can claim superor "knowledge". What a crock.