What is the call?

[JaysDad]

Bottom of first inning, runner on first, left handed pitcher, left handed batter, nobody out - batter turns toward the pitcher to bunt - the ball hits the bat goes straight down onto the plate and straight back up to hit the bat. The batter didn't try to hit the ball a second time- it just went down and up into the bat so fast he couldn't do anything to prevent it from happening. Oh yeah, and the runner was stealing.

What should the umpire say?

JaysDad

[SAump]

OBR 6.05 A batter is out when --(h) After hitting or bunting a fair ball, his bat hits the ball a second time in fair territory. The ball is dead and no runners may advance. If the batter-runner drops his bat and the ball rolls against the bat in fair territory and, in the umpire’s judgment, there was no intention to interfere with the course of the ball, the ball is alive and in play;

No, it is considered a foul ball. Literally, the same result as if after touching the bat, the ball hits the player's ankle while standing in the batter's box over fair territory. The correct ruling is foul ball.

[cshs81]

Originally Posted by SAump

OBR 6.05 A batter is out when --(h) After hitting or bunting a fair ball, his bat hits the ball a second time in fair territory. The ball is dead and no runners may advance. If the batter-runner drops his bat and the ball rolls against the bat in fair territory and, in the umpire’s judgment, there was no intention to interfere with the course of the ball, the ball is alive and in play;

No, it is considered a foul ball. Literally, the same result as if after touching the bat, the ball hits the player's ankle while standing in the batter's box over fair territory. The correct ruling is foul ball.

It would seem the difference in the OP and the example you cite is that the ball is still in fair territory (over the plate) in the OP and in the batter's box in your example.

What am I missing?

[ctblu40]

Originally Posted by cshs81

It would seem the difference in the OP and the example you cite is that the ball is still in fair territory (over the plate) in the OP and in the batter's box in your example.

What am I missing?

What you're missing is that technically, part of the batters box is in fair territory, however the accepted practice is that if the batter is struck by a batted ball in the box, it's ruled foul.

[cshs81]

Originally Posted by ctblu40

What you're missing is that technically, part of the batters box is in fair territory, however the accepted practice is that if the batter is struck by a batted ball in the box, it's ruled foul.

I get that. I'm wondering why a ball that hits the plate and then strikes the bat "above the plate" as described in the OP is a foul ball.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by cshs81

I get that. I'm wondering why a ball that hits the plate and then strikes the bat "above the plate" as described in the OP is a foul ball.

Not to be flippant, but it doesn't appear that you do get it.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by cshs81

It would seem the difference in the OP and the example you cite is that the ball is still in fair territory (over the plate) in the OP and in the batter's box in your example.

What am I missing?

It wouldn't be different, the ball is in fair territory in both the OP and the example. You are correct, however, the ball's status of fair or foul must be rendered by the immediate contact of the batter standing in the batter's box. In the 2006 BRD, Mr. Carl Childress writes that this is a "Point not covered" in OBR. Therefore, I won't look to find the OBR equivalent to FED Rules I quote below. I do know that the "out" would be treated like a runner being hit by a live batted ball over fair territory. In this case, since it is the BR, he would not be awarded 1B.

Here is the FED interp for both an Out or a Foul Ball.
FED 8.4.1 The BR is out when:
d. after hitting or bunting a ball, he intentionally contacts the ball with the bat a second time in fair or foul territory. The ball is dead and no runner(s) advance.
Note: In the case of a foul ball, it must have a chance to become fair in the umpire's judgment.

Exception: If the bat and ball accidently come in contact with each other a second time while the batter is holding the bat in the batter's box, it is a foul ball.

BRD 101 ALSO: If the batted ball hits the batter while he has no foot entirely outside of the batter's box, the ball is foul unless the umpire judges the batter interefered deiberately. (8.4.1b)
{although technically, Carl should mean (8.4.1d Note)}

In 2006 BRD 101 and BRD 102, the only difference is 'foul if "accidently" in one sitch' and 'out if "deliberately" in another.' Please, let's not turn this into "Are the hands are part of the bat?" discussion. The batter's box provides protection immediately. It would be different, if the bat in the batter's hand accidently contacts the ball while the batter is running toward 1B. Then rule 8.4.1d would apply.

[Jim Porter]

Originally Posted by cshs81

I get that. I'm wondering why a ball that hits the plate and then strikes the bat "above the plate" as described in the OP is a foul ball.

Common sense, fair play, custom, and tradition.

[cshs81]

Originally Posted by SAump

[/B]It wouldn't be different, the ball is in fair territory in both the OP and the example. You are correct, however, the ball's status of fair or foul must be rendered by the immediate contact of the batter standing in the batter's box. In the 2006 BRD, Mr. Carl Childress writes that this is a "Point not covered" in OBR. Therefore, I won't look to find the OBR equivalent to FED Rules I quote below. I do know that the "out" would be treated like a runner being hit by a live batted ball over fair territory. In this case, since it is the BR, he would not be awarded 1B.

Here is the FED interp for both an Out or a Foul Ball.
FED 8.4.1 The BR is out when:
d. after hitting or bunting a ball, he intentionally contacts the ball with the bat a second time in fair or foul territory. The ball is dead and no runner(s) advance.
Note: In the case of a foul ball, it must have a chance to become fair in the umpire's judgment.

Exception: If the bat and ball accidently come in contact with each other a second time while the batter is holding the bat in the batter's box, it is a foul ball.

BRD 101 ALSO: If the batted ball hits the batter while he has no foot entirely outside of the batter's box, the ball is foul unless the umpire judges the batter interefered deiberately. (8.4.1b)
{although technically, Carl should mean (8.4.1d Note)}

In 2006 BRD 101 and BRD 102, the only difference is 'foul if "accidently" in one sitch' and 'out if "deliberately" in another.' Please, let's not turn this into "Are the hands are part of the bat?" discussion. The batter's box provides protection immediately. It would be different, if the bat in the batter's hand accidently contacts the ball while the batter is running toward 1B. Then rule 8.4.1d would apply.

Thanks for the detailed explanation.

[cshs81]

Originally Posted by waltjp

Not to be flippant, but it doesn't appear that you do get it.

I got exactly what he said - a ball hitting a batter in the box is considered to be foul. What he did not say was that it is also foul if while in the box the ball hits the bat even though the ball itself is in fair territory.

Now I know.

[DonInKansas]

Originally Posted by cshs81

Now I know.

And knowing is half the battle!

GI JOE!