Balk or No Balk ?

[Forest Ump]

A little help please:

13-15 house league. Double elimination playoffs. Semi-final game. Pitchers are not the best for this team due to pitch count using up better pitchers early in the competition. I mention this to see if it makes a difference.

R3. Right handed pitcher steps on the rubber. He apparently tosses the ball from his right hand into his mitt and then takes it out. When I say toss, he kind of flips it in the air a foot or two so that it lands in his mitt. I actually did not see it as I had turned my head for a split second to check the batter as he came to the plate. The BU called a balk. I told BU between innings that I didn't think it was a balk. I didn't see the advantage the pitcher was getting. I thought it was more of a don't do that? Now I'm thinking about the three things a pitcher can do from the rubber and tossing the ball into your mitt is not one of them. I wish I had actually seen it.

What say ye.
Balk or No Balk ?

[DonInKansas]

Originally Posted by Forest Ump

He apparently tosses the ball from his right hand into his mitt and then takes it out.

This is the key, if I am reading you correctly. Once your hands come together, you cannot break them unless delivering the pitch. Balk.

[Forest Ump]

Originally Posted by DonInKansas

This is the key, if I am reading you correctly. Once your hands come together, you cannot break them unless delivering the pitch. Balk.

Don, I remember asking my partner if he had his hands together and he said he didn't. I told him I thought this was just transfering the ball from the hand to the glove. Again, I didn't see the move so I'm going by what he told me.

[mbyron]

So, basically you're asking us to back you up when you didn't even see the play?

Do you really think that F1 must gain an advantage for there to be a balk?

[Forest Ump]

Originally Posted by mbyron

So, basically you're asking us to back you up when you didn't even see the play?

Do you really think that F1 must gain an advantage for there to be a balk?

If that's how you read into this, perhaps. I think I was clear in asking if this move was a balk. I do think in some instances, and I'm not talking NCAA or HS Varsity, that you have to take into account is the pitcher getting an advantage or maybe better put, trying to deceive the runner. Do you consider that wrong for lower level ball?

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by Forest Ump

If that's how you read into this, perhaps. I think I was clear in asking if this move was a balk. I do think in some instances, and I'm not talking NCAA or HS Varsity, that you have to take into account is the pitcher getting an advantage or maybe better put, trying to deceive the runner. Do you consider that wrong for lower level ball?

Once you've progressed this far into a tournament, you are no longer lowering your standards for "lower level ball". It is not true that every balk derives from an obvious advantage... and just because you did not see an advantage on this particular balk doesn't make it not a balk. This was a balk.

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by DonInKansas

This is the key, if I am reading you correctly. Once your hands come together, you cannot break them unless delivering the pitch. Balk.

You can if you're in the Windup and "momentarily adjusting" the ball. However, in this particular situation, what I might do is use a little preventative umpiring: tell the pitcher to stop it, via directly addressing him or more preferably, sending the catcher out to tell him not to do that, and that technically, it's a balk. Truthfully, who really wants to call a balk in this situation?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Forest Ump

I do think in some instances ... that you have to take into account is the pitcher getting an advantage or maybe better put, trying to deceive the runner. Do you consider that wrong for lower level ball?

Yes, I do. The rules do NOT prohibit deceiving the runner, nor do they prohibit trying to do so. The rules deem certain moves by F1 illegal because they confer an unfair advantage on F1. Those moves are then illegal, regardless of F1's intent.

FYI, the word 'deceive' appears just twice in OBR (three if you count 'deceiving'), and only in rule 8.05 (the balk rule). The first instance is part of an example in 8.05(c), but the balk in that case is called for failing to step to first, not because of the deception.

The second instance appears in an explanatory note at the end of 8.05:

Umpires should bear in mind that the purpose of the balk rule is to prevent the pitcher from deliberately deceiving the base runner. If there is doubt in the umpire's mind, the "intent" of the pitcher should govern.

It is this note, I think, that leaves the impression that all attempted deception is illegal. Pro instruction, however, is that deception is part of baseball, and that the purpose of the balk rule is to prevent F1 having an unfair advantage in trying to pick off R1.

By that note, you might legitimately use deception as a criterion if there were doubt in your mind as to whether a move was a balk. In my experience, however, such doubt results much more commonly from umpires, coaches, and players not knowing the balk rule than from actual doubt as to whether a move violated the rule.

For my part, I do not call a balk unless I can explain to the coach in a few words what F1 did wrong (for instance: "started and stopped" or "no step" or "didn't come set"), and that explanation never involves the word 'deceive'.

I agree, btw, that in lower-level ball there are some balks that I would not call, but not because there's no attempt to deceive.

[johnnyg08]

You're going to see all of this stuff in Kiddie Ball...if you call the balk here...the least you can do is tell the kid what he's doing is wrong...I'm sure he's been doing it all season and nobody's said anything about it...(doesn't make it okay) but we're as much teachers in kiddie ball as we are umpires...everybody will appreciate that aspect as well...

[njdevs00cup]

Originally Posted by Forest Ump

A little help please:

13-15 house league. Double elimination playoffs. Semi-final game. Pitchers are not the best for this team due to pitch count using up better pitchers early in the competition. I mention this to see if it makes a difference.

R3. Right handed pitcher steps on the rubber. He apparently tosses the ball from his right hand into his mitt and then takes it out. When I say toss, he kind of flips it in the air a foot or two so that it lands in his mitt. I actually did not see it as I had turned my head for a split second to check the batter as he came to the plate. The BU called a balk. I told BU between innings that I didn't think it was a balk. I didn't see the advantage the pitcher was getting. I thought it was more of a don't do that? Now I'm thinking about the three things a pitcher can do from the rubber and tossing the ball into your mitt is not one of them. I wish I had actually seen it.

What say ye.
Balk or No Balk ?

I think this decision would depend on your pre-game with the managers at this level. As you stated, these were not the best pitchers.

[cbfoulds]

Originally Posted by njdevs00cup

I think this decision would depend on your pre-game with the managers at this level. As you stated, these were not the best pitchers.

Huh?!?

This only makes sense if "your pre-game" includes something like: "There are to be no called balks in this division".

As for the OP, your first mistake is in reflecting upon "the 3 things a pitcher can do from the rubber..." in figgering if this was a balk. Rather, you should be asking if the balk rule in force in your game penalizes this move.

IF all F1 did was "toss" the ball from his hand to glove when stepping onto the rubber, I've got nothing. However, if after doing this and while in contact with the rubber in the Set Position [which is what your initial post seems toi describe] he thereupon reached into the glove and removed the ball, and did not continue to pitch or do SOMETHING [legally attempt a pick] beside stand there, why, Rocoe, I believe we may have a balk.

'Course, since you didn't SEE it ......

[RPatrino]

I don't think we should take into account a pitchers "intent" to decieve a runner when deciding to call or not call a balk. The rules already have done that for us. So, our only decision should be, did the pitcher violate the rule or not? Bottom line, the pitcher's job is to decieve the runners within the confines of the rules. Deception is part of baseball and we can't make up our own rules to stop things that are legal just because we don't like them.

From what you describe, the pitcher tosses the ball from one hand to his glove, prior to coming set, then proceeds to pitch, I have nothing. After coming to a set position, anything more then a momentary adjustment of the ball WITHIN THE GLOVE is a balk.

[Forest Ump]

All good replies, thank you for the explanations.

I didn't mention this in the OP but this is a volunteer league I umpire for. It's how I started umpiring and has led me to joining up with an association two years ago.

I was a bit concerned when the other volunteer umpire told me in the pre-game that he was a "balk guru". He told me after he called this balk that he had it called on him when he played in HS. He also called time during the game to inform me that the pitcher was taking signs from his coach. I told him it was OK (advice I have learned from this board). I'm not telling you this to disparage the other umpire. He was a nice guy and filled in in a pinch when the other umpire canceled. I enjoy this league. I hope that some of the new umpires can learn by watching me, just as I learned by watching others. There are, I have learned, a lot of caveats to working volunteer league and associations. I may not do it much longer.