Base left too soon.

[soundedlikeastrike]

I actually had a instructor (thank goodness it was FP, and it was incorrect for FP as well) tell us once, "in this situation the runner cannot return, and if they try, just tell em hey you can't do that". Doh!

Just don't confuse "they can't" with they are not allowed too. They really can, it just won't protect em from the appeal.

[charliej47]

If I read this correctly, the runner had not touched 2nd base "at the time of the release". We have a "dead ball situation". The runner is awarded 2 bases. He goes to 3rd base and his coach tells him he has to go "touch 1st" before coming to 3rd and he does. ALL OF THIS HAPPENED WHILE THE BALL IS DEAD!

IF this is what happened and I understand what was said, then the runner did go back and touch 1st base and then proceeded to touch second and then stop on 3rd base, people I got nothing. Let's play ball.

[UmpJM]

charlie,

It would appear you have read the situation correctly.

Like you, "I got nothin" - until the defense appeals the R1's failure to legally retouch 1B on the catch. Then, I got an "OUT!".

JM

P.S. Good choice of screen name.

[charliej47]

I will say this again because now I'm getting confused. If he had touched 2nd base "at the time of release" and a legal appeal is made, I have an out. Because once you are "on or past your next base" and the ball goes dead then you can not legally go back and can be appealed. This is the point I am making. He was not there, therefore he could go back and touch. That's why I've got nothing.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by charliej47

If I read this correctly, the runner had not touched 2nd base "at the time of the release". We have a "dead ball situation". The runner is awarded 2 bases. He goes to 3rd base and his coach tells him he has to go "touch 1st" before coming to 3rd and he does. ALL OF THIS HAPPENED WHILE THE BALL IS DEAD!

IF this is what happened and I understand what was said, then the runner did go back and touch 1st base and then proceeded to touch second and then stop on 3rd base, people I got nothing. Let's play ball.

Charlie & JM

He touched second after the ball went dead and before he went back to touch first.

The touch of second killed his ability to legally go back and retouch first.

He is subject to being called out on appeal EVEN IF he then goes back and touches first.


And Charlie - it's not "time of release" - it's when the ball enters DBT.

[charliej47]

Rich, it is always "time of release". look at 7.05(g) APPROVED RULING:

IT is always the time-of-play, time-of-release, time-of-pitch, time-of-touch that determines what happens.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by charliej47

Rich, it is always "time of release". look at 7.05(g) APPROVED RULING:

IT is always the time-of-play, time-of-release, time-of-pitch, time-of-touch that determines what happens.

"Charlie" it is, then.

[charliej47]

The runner can be standing on 3rd base. and F6 throws the ball out of play while throwing it to F3. If the runner goes back and touches 1st base and I award him 2 bases on the over-throw. there is still nothing. Let's play 7.05(i)

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by charliej47

Rich, it is always "time of release". look at 7.05(g) APPROVED RULING:

IT is always the time-of-play, time-of-release, time-of-pitch, time-of-touch that determines what happens.

Nice try Charlie - wrong rule.

7.10(b) APPROVED RULING: (2) When the ball is dead, no runner may return to touch a missed base or one he has left after he has advanced to and touched a base beyond the missed base.


"When the ball is dead . . " . When does it become dead? When it enters DBT.

[charliej47]

Sorry I got carried away, that is true about my comment of him standing on 3rd or having touched second. Once he touches 2nd, even if he goes back, he would be subject to appeal, but it would still be "time-of-release" that determines when the ball goes out of play.

[charliej47]

Once the ball is dead. this will be determined when it "goes out of play" the determination will be determined from the "time of release" no runner can advance. So, he can not touch 2nd even if he does and goes all the way to 3rd that was what I was trying to say.

I would had said "Dead ball 2-base award". Now if the coach sent him back to 1st for the re-touch, it would have been a smart coach. Anything else, I would have waited for an appeal or the next pitch. Let's play.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by charliej47

Once the ball is dead. this will be determined when it "goes out of play" the determination will be determined from the "time of release" no runner can advance. So, he can not touch 2nd even if he does and goes all the way to 3rd that was what I was trying to say.

Are you from Canada?