Base left too soon.
 

No out, R1 on first. R1 takes off with the pitch and is not yet to second when the ball in lined to the SS for an out. The throw is back to first to double off R1. The throw goes into DB territory. R1 never gets back to the base. He is awarded third and goes there, touching second on the way. When he gets there the coach tells him to go back and touch first. He does so, touching second on his way back. The defense then appeals. Can the runner do this or not? He was beyond a succeeding base, but NOT WHEN the ball became dead. FED rules here.

Illini_Ref,

As described, the R1 has lost the opportunity to correct his failure to retouch and is subject to being called out on a properly constitued appeal by the defense. FED or OBR (or NCAA, for that matter).

JM

Just be sure YOU don't call him out. Defense still has the right (and obligation) to appeal.

Once R1 touched second after the ball became dead, it was too late for him to (legally) return to touch first. This is true in all codes.

The "on or beyond a succeeding base when the ball becomes dead" is a FED rule only.

This is a great scenario...so if I'm reading this correctly, before the runner can go to 3B, he has to retouch 1B since the batted ball that was a line drive was caught. and even though the defense tried to make one play on R1, they threw the ball into the stands...they could still appeal that play...and since R1 passed 2B, he has lost the opportunity to retouch even if he got back safely?? I'm not writing this to disagree with anybody...please clarify for me...thank you

Your summary is correct.

I actually had a instructor (thank goodness it was FP, and it was incorrect for FP as well) tell us once, "in this situation the runner cannot return, and if they try, just tell em hey you can't do that". Doh!

Just don't confuse "they can't" with they are not allowed too. They really can, it just won't protect em from the appeal.

:D If I read this correctly, the runner had not touched 2nd base "at the time of the release". We have a "dead ball situation". The runner is awarded 2 bases. He goes to 3rd base and his coach tells him he has to go "touch 1st" before coming to 3rd and he does. ALL OF THIS HAPPENED WHILE THE BALL IS DEAD!

IF this is what happened and I understand what was said, then the runner did go back and touch 1st base and then proceeded to touch second and then stop on 3rd base, people I got nothing. Let's play ball.

charlie,

It would appear you have read the situation correctly.

Like you, "I got nothin" - until the defense appeals the R1's failure to legally retouch 1B on the catch. Then, I got an "OUT!".

JM

P.S. Good choice of screen name.

:confused: I will say this again because now I'm getting confused. If he had touched 2nd base "at the time of release" and a legal appeal is made, I have an out. Because once you are "on or past your next base" and the ball goes dead then you can not legally go back and can be appealed. This is the point I am making. He was not there, therefore he could go back and touch. That's why I've got nothing.

Charlie & JM

He touched second after the ball went dead and before he went back to touch first.

The touch of second killed his ability to legally go back and retouch first.

He is subject to being called out on appeal EVEN IF he then goes back and touches first.


And Charlie - it's not "time of release" - it's when the ball enters DBT.

:eek: Rich, it is always "time of release". look at 7.05(g) APPROVED RULING:

IT is always the time-of-play, time-of-release, time-of-pitch, time-of-touch that determines what happens.

"Charlie" it is, then.

:p The runner can be standing on 3rd base. and F6 throws the ball out of play while throwing it to F3. If the runner goes back and touches 1st base and I award him 2 bases on the over-throw. there is still nothing. Let's play 7.05(i)

Nice try Charlie - wrong rule.

7.10(b) APPROVED RULING: (2) When the ball is dead, no runner may return to touch a missed base or one he has left after he has advanced to and touched a base beyond the missed base.


"When the ball is dead . . " . When does it become dead? When it enters DBT.