Who scores??

[UmpJM]

johnnyg08,

As I said in the 5th post on this thread, NO RUN SCORES on the play presented in the OP.

JM

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

So what is the correct answer in the OP? R3 scores, R2,R1,BR runs do not score? or All runs score except for R2?

Is the third out a force out? Can runs score when the third out is a force out?

If your answers are other than "Yes" and "No" respectively, then go back and reread the thread and or the rules. This specifici example might even be in OBR under "How a Run Scores" (4.06?)

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by CoachJM

johnnyg08,

As I said in the 5th post on this thread, NO RUN SCORES on the play presented in the OP.

JM

That is your answer...is that the correct answer? No runs score? How is that possible? R3 certainly would've scored here prior to the appeal...is it because it's homerun versus a catch or other type of appeal?

I have read the rules a million times...I'm aware of what they say...I'm looking for somebody to please explain it to me differently from what the rules say...for some reason I'm just not getting it...I "get" the rule, I just don't understand the "why" sorry for appearing to be difficult...I just need to be able to explain to a coach when his guy hits a walk off grand slam that his team now potentially loses the game...depending on the inning. If indeed the answer is that zero runs score on this play in FED. Thanks guys

[UmpJM]

johnnyg08,

Yes, that is the correct answer, and it is fully in accordance with what the rules say. I'll admit, it can be a little confusing, so let me try to explain.

The basic principle is that no run can score on any play where the 3rd out of the half inning is made on the BR before he touches 1B or any runner who is put out on a Force.

When a runner's miss of a base is properly appealed, AND the base he missed was his "forced to" base, the out is treated as a Force Out. If such out is the 3rd out of the half inning, no run can score.

Got it?

JM

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by CoachJM

johnnyg08,

Yes, that is the correct answer, and it is fully in accordance with what the rules say. I'll admit, it can be a little confusing, so let me try to explain.

The basic principle is that no run can score on any play where the 3rd out of the half inning is made on the BR before he touches 1B or any runner who is put out on a Force.

When a runner's miss of a base is properly appealed, AND the base he missed was his "forced to" base, the out is treated as a Force Out. If such out is the 3rd out of the half inning, no run can score.

Got it?

JM

Thanks JM...is this ruling potentially why the umps misapplied the Time Play in the Cleveland/Baltimore a couple of weeks back?

[UmpJM]

johnnyg08,

To my mind, that play was much more straightforward than the sitch being discussed in this thread. For the life of me, I can't imagine how any MLB umpire, let alone a crew of four, could have screwed the pooch on that one.

I guess they're human too & we all have the occasional "brain fart" - when you get to my age, you get to call them "senior moments".

Jm

[johnnyg08]

When a runner's miss of a base is properly appealed, AND the base he missed was his "forced to" base, the out is treated as a Force Out. If such out is the 3rd out of the half inning, no run can score.

Now that makes sense. Thank you.

Originally Posted by CoachJM

johnnyg08,

Yes, that is the correct answer, and it is fully in accordance with what the rules say. I'll admit, it can be a little confusing, so let me try to explain.

The basic principle is that no run can score on any play where the 3rd out of the half inning is made on the BR before he touches 1B or any runner who is put out on a Force.

When a runner's miss of a base is properly appealed, AND the base he missed was his "forced to" base, the out is treated as a Force Out. If such out is the 3rd out of the half inning, no run can score.

Got it?

JM

Maybe you should work with those who write the case book!!!

[soundedlikeastrike]

No, none, zip, nada, runs score in the OP.

The appeal was on a runner that was forced, he didn't touch his forced to base, so it's just like F5 had fielded a grounder and stepped on the bag.

Now, had there been only R3, R2, no force, then R3's run woulda counted, if he scored prior to the appeal.

[DG]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

I'm looking for somebody to please explain it to me differently from what the rules say...for some reason I'm just not getting it...I "get" the rule, I just don't understand the "why" sorry for appearing to be difficult...I just need to be able to explain to a coach when his guy hits a walk off grand slam that his team now potentially loses the game...depending on the inning.

Well coach, it's like this. When the bases are loaded there is a force play at every base and when your runners don't touch the base to which they are forced they are liable to be called out on appeal and when there are two outs a force play ends the inning and no runs score. Now if your runners could touch the base to which they are forced we would not be having this discussion and in this situation they are under no time pressure to do so so I don't really understand it either.

[greymule]

Now that you know the rule, it might be interesting to examine some plays in which it might not be clear whether or not the third out was a force play, especially with appeals for missed bases.

For example, there are some missed-base appeals that OBR, NCAA, and softball interpret differently in terms of whether they are force outs.