Tough call for me today

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Reference, please. BRs can go to first when the ball is dead. None of those situations are relevant to this play, though.

Bob I equate this play to the following citation in OBR rule 4

PENALTY: If the runner on third refuses to advance to and touch home base in a reasonable time, the umpire shall disallow the run, call out the offending player and order the game resumed. If, with two out, the batter-runner refuses to advance to and touch first base, the umpire shall disallow the run, call out the offending player, and order the game resumed. If, before two are out, the batter-runner refuses to advance to and touch first base, the run shall count, but the offending player shall be called out.

Here we have a batter turned runner refusing to go to first base in a reasonable amount of time, therefore, the BR is now declared out based upon OBR rule 4. In turn the BR does not vacate any space needed in order for the defense to make a play, so the runner on whom the defense was playing in this case R3 is also declared out.

In this play I have 2 outs. The batter turned runner had ample time to run to first but didn't and then compounded things by interfering with a play at home.

Pete Booth

[bob jenkins]

[QUOTE=PeteBooth]

Here we have a batter turned runner refusing to go to first base in a reasonable amount of time,

I don't read anywhere the the BR REFUSED to go to first. I think you're way off base trying to use this rule here. imo, the rule is only to avoid the BR saying something like, "Why shoudl I go to first? The game is over, and they can't put me out, so it's a waste of my multi-million $ contract."

[LMan]

[QUOTE=bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

I don't read anywhere the the BR REFUSED to go to first. I think you're way off base trying to use this rule here. imo, the rule is only to avoid the BR saying something like, "Why shoudl I go to first? The game is over, and they can't put me out, so it's a waste of my multi-million $ contract."

Uh, yeah. He 'refused' to go to 1B in the time it took R3 to run to the plate and get caught up in an INT call on the BR. What's that, a couple of seconds?

Sounds 'reasonable' to me.

[Daryl H. Long]

On every play there are multiple ways for a player to make an out. This sitch is no exception.

Options to get Batter-runner out: Throw ball to first and touch base, tag him, B-R could interfere.

Only one will happen and I must make my ruling based on the action.

If I deem the B-R (not batter as has been pointed out) has interfered then the ball is dead and the B-R is declared out and R3 is returned to last base touched at time of the interference.

If I do not declare the B-R interfered the the run scores and since the ball remains live that still leaves the B-R in jeopardy to be put out (uncaught third strike).

How? Tag him or throw ball to first. 8-4-1f. This is the easy way.

If the B-R still does not attempt to advance to first and the defense is also not trying to tag or throw to first I will say that the pitch was strike three. If still no action I am not waiting very long before will call time and declare B-R out. (Out because he accumulated three strikes and now that ball is dead he can not advance).

[DTQ_Blue]

In response to Big Guy, batter was RH, F1 approaches plate and her best position to take the throw from F2 would have been slightly to side of the plate to her right as she approached. Because the batter was directly in her path, the pitcher stays more to her left and approaches the plate head on. This disadvantaged F1 in positioning herself to attempt to make the tag.

One thing I would add in response to the discussion about intent on the part of the batter. As I noted up top, this actually happened in a softball game, but I wanted this board's take on the play because it could happen in a baseball game. It happened in a 10U tournament game. There were a lot of good teams at this event but the batting team was not one of them. They were far inferior in quality to every other team present. This play happened because the batter didn't have a clue; no intent whatsoever. But I still had to make a call.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by DTQ_Blue

In response to Big Guy, batter was RH, F1 approaches plate and her best position to take the throw from F2 would have been slightly to side of the plate to her right as she approached. Because the batter was directly in her path, the pitcher stays more to her left and approaches the plate head on. This disadvantaged F1 in positioning herself to attempt to make the tag.

One thing I would add in response to the discussion about intent on the part of the batter. As I noted up top, this actually happened in a softball game, but I wanted this board's take on the play because it could happen in a baseball game. It happened in a 10U tournament game. There were a lot of good teams at this event but the batting team was not one of them. They were far inferior in quality to every other team present. This play happened because the batter didn't have a clue; no intent whatsoever. But I still had to make a call.

In baseball or softball, the pitcher does not have the right to block off the base without the ball. Unless the retired batter (softball) actually intentionally interfered with the pitcher, and I don't see how she could have from her position in the batter's box. Had she stepped forward and impeded F1's approach, then I can see INT. But if she remained in her batting position like many youth players do when they don't understand the situation (they kind of freeze), then she is not by that act alone interfering with the pitcher. The pitcher can only block the plate with possession (or imminent play in the judgment of the umpire) of the ball, otherwise she is obstructing if there is contact which impedes the runner.

It seems to me that if the batter was in such a position as to be interfering with the pitcher, she would no doubt be blocking her own teammate from scoring as well.

[DTQ_Blue]

Steve,

In 10U softball, the pitcher's plate is only 37' from home. A quick and alert pitcher gets to the plate to cover very quickly. Also due to the quality of the team at bat as noted above, R3 wasn't exactly off to a quick start down the line. F1 was not blocking the plate, but was at the plate before the runner and trying to set up slightly to the 3B side (throw was coming from slightly to the 1B side of the area behind the plate). That way, if she catches the catcher's throw, she just drops the glove. If she, a RH pitcher approaches the plate head on, she has to catch the throw and then reach back across her body to apply the tag before the runners foot contacts the plate.

I could see F1 looking at the batter and changing her angle of approach to the plate. IMO, the batter did not clear the area as she should have.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by DTQ_Blue

Steve,

In 10U softball, the pitcher's plate is only 37' from home. A quick and alert pitcher gets to the plate to cover very quickly. Also due to the quality of the team at bat as noted above, R3 wasn't exactly off to a quick start down the line. F1 was not blocking the plate, but was at the plate before the runner and trying to set up slightly to the 3B side (throw was coming from slightly to the 1B side of the area behind the plate). That way, if she catches the catcher's throw, she just drops the glove. If she, a RH pitcher approaches the plate head on, she has to catch the throw and then reach back across her body to apply the tag before the runners foot contacts the plate.

I could see F1 looking at the batter and changing her angle of approach to the plate. IMO, the batter did not clear the area as she should have.

Causing the pitcher to change approach angles is not interference. It is not the same principal as used in obstruction situations, where causing a deviation of a path is a violation. If the batter made no move to prevent the pitcher from setting up for the throw, then she didn't interfere. The pitcher could have just came right in and contacted the batter out of the way, but chose to accomodate the batter by not pushing her aside. The pitcher decided to change courses, the batter did nothing to cause this.

Of course, I wasn't there, so I really don't know what the batter did or didn't do, but if she just stood there, that act alone does not constitute interference.