Overrun First on BOB

[tibear]

I know this has been asked many times already and in OBR the batter/runner is entitled to overrun first without liability to be put on, as long as no attempt for second.

Had the following question on umpire quiz with OBR rules:

The leadoff man walks. After ball four, the catcher returns the ball to the pitcher who starts walking around the mound in disgust. Meanwhile the runner reaches first and then walks off the base a few steps, bends to pull up his socks. The pitcher then fires to the first baseman who tags the runner. Is the runner out?

I said no, the answer key said yes and the clinician said the BOB was an award so that meant that the runner was entitled to first and nothing more.

As indicated earlier, I've found many earlier threads which indicate the runner is save but would like rule references to send to the clinician.

Thanks

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by tibear

I know this has been asked many times already and in OBR the batter/runner is entitled to overrun first without liability to be put on, as long as no attempt for second.

Had the following question on umpire quiz with OBR rules:

The leadoff man walks. After ball four, the catcher returns the ball to the pitcher who starts walking around the mound in disgust. Meanwhile the runner reaches first and then walks off the base a few steps, bends to pull up his socks. The pitcher then fires to the first baseman who tags the runner. Is the runner out?

I said no, the answer key said yes and the clinician said the BOB was an award so that meant that the runner was entitled to first and nothing more.

As indicated earlier, I've found many earlier threads which indicate the runner is save but would like rule references to send to the clinician.

Thanks

THere's a difference between "overruning a base" and "stepping (or walking) off".

[tibear]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

THere's a difference between "overruning a base" and "stepping (or walking) off".

I agree with you and the answer in this case is probably the runner is out.

However, what is the response to the base award rather then a hit. i.e. since the BOB is an award the BR cannot run through first without liability of being put out.

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

THere's a difference between "overruning a base" and "stepping (or walking) off".

Indeed; but on an overrun of first stemming from a walk...

I ought to make this the next one in my "You Make the Call" column, Bob, because this little scenario has drawn conflicting rulings for quite some time. I don't have Evans's Annotated Rules in front of me, but IIRC, he says one thing while the OBR interp. says another. Now I've forced myself to research this for the umpteenth time.

[RPatrino]

In OBR, the BR on a BOB may over-run first and return immediately without liability. He/She must make an attempt to advance to second in order to be putout. The BR can turn left, right, or run straight through the bag, it makes no difference, provided they make NO attempt to advance.

In FED, there is no such protection, and can be put out if they overrun first on a BOB.

[greymule]

In OBR, the BR on a BOB may over-run first and return immediately without liability. He/She must make an attempt to advance to second in order to be putout. The BR can turn left, right, or run straight through the bag, it makes no difference, provided they make NO attempt to advance.

In FED, there is no such protection, and can be put out if they overrun first on a BOB.

True. But in OBR, if the BR gets a BOB, trots down to 1B, stops, and then steps past the bag, he hasn't overrun. He has simply walked off the bag and is liable to be tagged out. I admit that if he kept walking past the bag and then returned, I'd consider that an "overrun" (or an "overwalk"). It's a HTBT. But the BR has no automatic protection simply because his physical position is somewhere down the 1B line.

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by RPatrino

In OBR, the BR on a BOB may over-run first and return immediately without liability. He/She must make an attempt to advance to second in order to be putout. The BR can turn left, right, or run straight through the bag, it makes no difference, provided they make NO attempt to advance.

In FED, there is no such protection, and can be put out if they overrun first on a BOB.

FYI, under all levels of Williamsport Baseball, a batter who overruns first on a walk is out if tagged. (Andy Konyar explanation to me on a phone call many moons ago.)

[tibear]

What is the response to the clinician's answer that since a BOB is a base award it is treated differently than a base hit and the runner is protected only up to the base and nothing further? Remembering it is OBR rules.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Official MLB interpretation, and the one I use:

NOTE: The batter-runner is not prohibited from overrunning first base on a base on balls (i.e., the batter-runner may overrun first base on a base on balls and is not in jeopardy of being put out provided he returns immediately to first base). (See Official Baseball Rules 7.08(c)(EXCEPTION), 7.08(j), and 7.10(c).)

[justanotherblue]

As I recall, Evans say's he is out. Use 6.08A

.....If in advancing, the base runner thinks there is a play and he slides past the base before or after touching it he may be put out by the fielder tagging him. If he fails to touch the base to which he is entitled and attempts to advance beyond that base he may be put out by tagging him or the base he missed.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by justanotherblue

As I recall, Evans say's he is out. Use 6.08A

.....If in advancing, the base runner thinks there is a play and he slides past the base before or after touching it he may be put out by the fielder tagging him. If he fails to touch the base to which he is entitled and attempts to advance beyond that base he may be put out by tagging him or the base he missed.

As I said, that was the JEA and MLB position prior to 2001. The JEA has not been updated and MLBUM no longer agrees with that interpretation. There is no bigger fan of Jim than me, but his opinion in this matter no longer is accepted by MLB.

Neither portion of your quote is applicable to a BOB batter/runner simply touching and overrunning first and not attempting to advance.

[RPatrino]

In Little ball, the standard play is to throw the ball to the F3 on a BOB. If the BR steps off 1b, or over runs 1b, the F3 tags him. Now, knowing the ball is in the F3's glove should clue the BR in to stay on the bag. In this situation, I don't have an out, the BR was not attempting to advance.

However, if he over runs 1b and just stands off the base, adjusting himself, I do have an out if he is tagged. He didn't return immediately to 1b after over running it.

[sargee7]

Originally Posted by UMP25

FYI, under all levels of Williamsport Baseball, a batter who overruns first on a walk is out if tagged. (Andy Konyar explanation to me on a phone call many moons ago.)

UMP25, it must have been many moons ago because it sure is OK to overrun 1B on a walk now, as long as the runner returns immediately. Even says so in the 2007 R.I.M. ( I know that not everyone has a copy, I just got lucky).

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by UMP25

FYI, under all levels of Williamsport Baseball, a batter who overruns first on a walk is out if tagged. (Andy Konyar explanation to me on a phone call many moons ago.)

That's flat out wrong. The LL case book "The Right Call" says it's OK.

Don't confuse stepping off and overrunnung.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by RPatrino

However, if he over runs 1b and just stands off the base, adjusting himself, I do have an out if he is tagged.

And if he adjusts himself more than three times, he's playing with it.