Bunt attempt turns into HBP

[SAump]

THE HANDS ARE NOT PART OF THE BAT.
Situation: Dumb coach vs. OOO.
Can an OOO toss a coach who doesn't know the rule?
Would that be right?

Don't have time now for the details, but I needed to vent.
Will get back with the rest of the story.

[sargee7]

Originally Posted by SAump

THE HANDS ARE NOT PART OF THE BAT.
Situation: Dumb coach vs. OOO.
Can an OOO toss a coach who doesn't know the rule?
Would that be right?

Don't have time now for the details, but I needed to vent.
Will get back with the rest of the story after I clear my head.

Come back when you have the rest of the details. Could be interesting

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by SAump

THE HANDS ARE NOT PART OF THE BAT.
Situation: Dumb coach vs. OOO.
Can an OOO toss a coach who doesn't know the rule?
Would that be right?

Don't have time now for the details, but I needed to vent.
Will get back with the rest of the story.

The OOO can toss the coach. Whether or not he should have is moot. May be a learning situation for both parties though.

[SAump]

High school JV team playing at home with their best pitcher on the mound and an 8-10 run lead after two innings of work. Next inning, F1 starts around the edges and most of his pitches are thrown either letter high or mid-calf low. He walks 2 batters immediately within 8-11 pitches. Well, I am not gonna sit back and give away 3 BOBs in a row if I can help it and call the closest pitch I have seen in a while a strike. Now the pressure is on and B3 manages to bloop one over the infield to load the bases. I now have a legitimate rally on my hands.

The next batter squares around to bunt and guess where this pitcher decides to unload his next pitch? He throws it right at the batters face. Luckily for the batter he quickly stood up {out of fear?} and brought the handle of the bat up immediately to block the ball. Remember his right hand is holding the barrel of the bat out over the plate. He never let go of the bat. Ball meets left HAND near the knob of the bat and dribbles foul. I am cringing the whole time thinking that when this kid turns around, at best he's gonna have a sore hand and at worse a swollen lip or some missing teeth. The kid turns around and tells me that the ball hit him on the hand and that he is okay. I'm delighted that I am not calling an ambulance and properly award him first base.

I begin to think to myself, this kid earned that trip the hard way, he just doesn't know how lucky he is yet. Well the kid looks confused and appears to want to get back into the batter's box. Now I begin thinking to myself as to whether or not this innocent boy considered that a legitimate bunt attempt? I look up to see the boy's head coach coming to the plate. I begin to think, good, he's coming to check to see if his boy is alright. A good coach would be concerned for the safety of his players in a situation like this. The coach passes him by and walks up to me and tells me in a loud voice for all to hear, "The ball struck him on the hand."

I look at the boy once again and award him first base. Hell, he couldn't hit this pitcher with two good hands. I quietly explain to his coach what I saw and tell him to trust me, that boy earned the base for getting hit by the pitch. I can hear the home team begin to stir in the background. Sure, the bases are loaded and they want the young man to bat. I can't believe the OC would put me in this situation. He couldn't be happy his team scored 1 run off an overwhelming pitcher who lost a shutout. He had to pretend to be a coach and come out and make me look like a doofus in front of the home team. The coach never had a clue and still believes that I made the wrong call.

[kylejt]

Aside from

Well, I am not gonna sit back and give away 3 BOBs in a row if I can help it and call the closest pitch I have seen in a while a strike.

, I don't see anything else wrong. Heck, the kid TOLD YOU the ball hit him, plus you can't possibly see it. You've got to go off of sound, and circumstantial evidence. The fact that the coach doesn't agree is nothing more than a bit amusing.

[MadCityRef]

Give the coach the bat and ask him to point out where on the bat he can find the batter's hand.
You give the coach too much credit if you think he comes out just to make you look bad, and who cares about the fans anyway.
If the 3-0 pitch is marginal, ball it. Get on to the next batter. If the 3-1 pitch is again marginal, now you are expected to call that pitch again as a strike. Now you're on the spot for the 3-2 pitch. Make you life easier.

[David B]

Originally Posted by SAump

High school JV team playing at home with their best pitcher on the mound and an 8-10 run lead after two innings of work. Next inning, F1 starts around the edges and most of his pitchers are thrown either letter high or mid-calf low. He walks 2 batters immediatly within 8-11 pitches. Well, I am not gonna sit back and give away 3 BOBs in a row if I can help it and call the closest pitch I have seen in a while a strike. Now the pressure is on and B3 manages to bloop one over the infield to load the bases. I now have a legitimate rally on my hands.

The next batter squares around to bunt and guess where this pitcher decides to unload his next pitch? He throws it right at the batters face. Luckily for the batter he quickly stood up {out of fear?} and brought the handle of the bat up immediately to block the ball. Remember his right hand is holding the barrel of the bat out over the plate. He never let go of the bat. Ball meets left HAND near the knob of the bat and dribbles foul. I am cringing the whole time thinking that when this kid turns around, at best he's gonna have a sore hand and at worse a swollen lip or some missing teeth. The kid turns around and tells me that the ball hit him on the hand and that he is okay. I'm delighted that I am not calling an ambulance and properly award him first base.

I begin to think to myself, this kid earned that trip the hard way, he just doesn't know how lucky he is yet. Well the kid looks confused and appears to want to get back into the batter's box. Now I begin thinking to myself as to whether or not this innocent boy considered that a legitimate bunt attempt? I look up to see the boy's head coach coming to the plate. I begin to think, good, he's coming to check to see if his boy is alright. A good coach would be concerned for the safety of his players in a situation like this. The coach passes him by and walks up to me and tells me in a loud voice for all to hear, "The ball struck him on the hand."

I look at the boy once again and award him first base. Hell, he couldn't hit this pitcher with two good hands. I quietly explain to his coach what I saw and tell him to trust me, that boy earned the base for getting hit by the pitch. I can hear the home team begin to stir in the background. Sure, the bases are loaded and they want the young man to bat. I can't believe the OC would put me in this situation. He couldn't be happy his team scored 1 run off an overwhelming pitcher who lost a shutout. He had to pretend to be a coach and come out and make me look like a doofus in front of the home team. The coach never had a clue and still believes that I made the wrong call.

If he's their best pitcher he should be able to throw a strike - I'm not giving him anything!!

Thanks
David

[SAump]

After I turn around towards the plate, the home coach is waiting there for me to give him the same explanation. I tell him that the batter did not attempt to bunt the ball. I tell him the batter was protecting himself from serious injury and that I only awarded him first base after he was hit by a pitch. I am pretty sure why I had to explain my actions. I didn't want to mention that the hands are not part of the bat. But it didn't end there.

The next batter was hit in the chest by the very next pitch. This was a NO brainer and another run scored. Now it was I who appeared confused as I yelled, "Warning" to both teams. Here comes the home coach to ask why I had issued a warning to his pitcher. I called for my partner to explain my actions to him first and to let the coach wait for me. I needed to make sure my words were appropriate. My partner thought it was legit and then I explained myself to the coach. In hindsight, I wished I would have told the coach straight out.

Look coach, I witnessed two hitters take fastballs between the shoulder blades after squaring to bunt the pitch. I am not saying those pitches were intentional or your pitcher would have been ejected. I am saying that he almost hit two people in the face and if another pitch comes close to a batter's head, then I am going to eject both of you. The coach is just angry and trying to justify his situation with the old "this is baseball" story. I tell the coach the next baseball better make contact below the shoulder blades.

Well now I am pumped and I need to calm down because I need to remain impartial. Good thing the pitcher started bringing them down the pipe too. One batter manages to take a calf-high fastball to center to drive in another run before the side is retired. Bottom half of the inning, home team scores 4 more runs. They want my hide after the last batter fouls off a series of pitches and I nail him on a change-up down the middle. Sure they knew it was low, but they didn't seem to understand the pitch was knee high at the front end of the strike zone. That was my longest inning of the season.

I look at my pocketwatch and an 1:30 has already gone by. There goes my gameplan to keep the game moving along. I decide to let them take all the time they need between innings as tensions are high. The top half of the next two half-innings are 1-2-3 when my "coach" puts in his subs to face that flamethrower. The home team manages to score a few more runs each inning. I happen to ask the their catcher if he knows the score, 14-3. Another victory for the home team and I will be getting out of there soon.

Things begin to lighten up. Bases empty, one out to go, visiting pitcher at the plate and BAM. The pitcher threw the high inside fastball. The batter doesn't duck either. He turns his back and get nailed squarely between the back shoulder blades. Too late, I'm not gonna bring in another pitcher with one out to go. Should I believe in conspiracy theories?

[BretMan]

FED rules do not proscribe "team warnings", nor warnings to both teams in a HBP situation.

You've been watching to many pro games on TV.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by BretMan

FED rules do not proscribe "team warnings", nor warnings to both teams in a HBP situation.

You've been watching to many pro games on TV.

I was aware that this "team warning" subject had come up in an earlier thread, Controling a Game, by Pete Booth. I have added the link here so that readers may review the discussion that took place in the first eleven posts of that thread.

Controlling a game

My problem is that FED 6-2-3, NCAA 9-2g, OBR 8.02d, or BRD #391 don't exactly come to mind and roll off the tongue when everything is taking place around me on the ball field. I am trying.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by SAump

I look at my pocketwatch and an 1:30 has already gone by.

Why did you do this? Unless it's a timed game, then only look at the watch when you need to establish the time -- minimum waiting period on lightning, for example.

[wadeintothem]

You blew this call straight up.

This was an attempt. "saving yourself" with the bat is an attempt to hit the ball with the bat. If you have time to try to hit the ball, you have time to duck!

Look at it this way, if this batter had hit the ball fair and it not hit his hands - would you have called "Dead ball, batter was not trying to hit ball, he was trying to defend himself".

Nope, if it was a fairball, play would have went on.

This was deadball, strike on the call.

3-1

Play ball.

The UCC/possible UCC is a different matter and you can handle that as a separate issue.

"I look at my pocketwatch and an 1:30 has already gone by."

You dont need a watch on the ball field. If you need a timer, put it on the fence.

Well, I am not gonna sit back and give away 3 BOBs in a row if I can help it

Are you the pitcher or the coach.. or the umpire???

You were umpiring at the JV level - not minor little league.


I think you have some work to do.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Why did you do this? Unless it's a timed game, then only look at the watch when you need to establish the time -- minimum waiting period on lightning, for example.

You're right. Both teams were going about usual between innings. I looked at my watch to releave the nervous tension. Not thinking about the 10-run rule, I wanted to know how long the next four innings would take. I use the watch before walking onto the ballfield. I also look at it as soon as I leave the field to see how long the game lasted. Luckily for me, the 10-run rule took effect and I called this game shortly before 2:10. The home team won my previous game 11-1 in about the same amount of time. I also keep my car keys in the bottom of the same pocket under my ballbag. Perhaps I am becoming a bit superstitious.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

You blew this call straight up.

This was an attempt. "saving yourself" with the bat is an attempt to hit the ball with the bat. If you have time to try to hit the ball, you have time to duck!

Look at it this way, if this batter had hit the ball fair and it not hit his hands - would you have called "Dead ball, batter was not trying to hit ball, he was trying to defend himself".

If the pitcher delivers a pitch at the batter's head and the ball strikes the bat as the batter is ducking it's a fair or foul ball, depending on where the ball comes to rest. This is not an attempt to hit the ball.

Slightly different situation - assume the pitch is inside and the batter spins to get out of the way and the ball strikes the bat. Again, the ball has been struck with the bat and will be fair or foul depending on where the ball comes to rest or is fielded. This is not an attempt either.

If the batter was hit on the hands in either of these situations it's a dead ball, hit by pitch.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

You blew this call straight up.

This was an attempt. "saving yourself" with the bat is an attempt to hit the ball with the bat. If you have time to try to hit the ball, you have time to duck!

Look at it this way, if this batter had hit the ball fair and it not hit his hands - would you have called "Dead ball, batter was not trying to hit ball, he was trying to defend himself".

Nope, if it was a fairball, play would have went on.

This was deadball, strike on the call.

3-1

Play ball.

This is faulty logic you are using. If the batter made no attempt to hit the baseball, it is a HBP. It is only a dead ball strike if he was either 1) hit by the ball while it was in the strike zone, or 2) if he was making an attempt to hit the ball. Just because the ball hit his hand, and not the bat, doesn't make it a dead ball strike.

If the batter just held his bat in the normal set position, instead of squaring around to bunt, and was hit in the hand, would you call a dead ball strike then? No, you would award first base. But if the ball caromed off of the bat into fair territory, it would be a fair ball, whether swung at or not.

Unless this guy saw the pitch coming at his face, and actually attempted to bunt the ball, this was a Hit By Pitch.