Ejection

[mrm21711]

I agree...I waited way too long. In the back of my head I was thinking, "Im gonna show him I know whats going on and give him one chance to avoid any situation." Sometimes you just cannot avoid these things.

To clarify what Steve & some others commented on, the discussion started on the way back from the conference. We got to the home plate area, and thats where I offered a warning and subsequently dumped him.

I know this flies in the face of everything we know is right, but I was so cautious because I know that based on my area, many would say I was "over agressive" in this situation.

Thanks to everybody who responded.

[mcrowder]

I don't know about heading out there immediately if you "Know" he's out there to discuss pitches with you. This isn't MLB. If you head out immediately, and it turns out he's calmed down during his trek to the mound, and is actually going to tell his pitcher something ... what are you going to do then? Instigate? Listen in? Neither are appropriate.

Treat ALL mound conferences the same. Mask off, Brush out, clean plate, check card, put everything away - 10 seconds or so. If he's still there start walking (unless you work in Oregon) out slowly - 10 more seconds. 20 is plenty.

And Ozzy's verbiage advice is gold.

[lawump]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

I don't know about heading out there immediately if you "Know" he's out there to discuss pitches with you. This isn't MLB. If you head out immediately, and it turns out he's calmed down during his trek to the mound, and is actually going to tell his pitcher something ... what are you going to do then? Instigate? Listen in? Neither are appropriate.

Treat ALL mound conferences the same. Mask off, Brush out, clean plate, check card, put everything away - 10 seconds or so. If he's still there start walking (unless you work in Oregon) out slowly - 10 more seconds. 20 is plenty.

And Ozzy's verbiage advice is gold.

In little league you might be right...but high school and college you "know" when a manager/head coach is only out there to discuss things with you. How do you know? Here are some signs:

(1) You can tell from the situation in the game. (For instance: Close calls going against defense/pitcher; pitcher may be complaining or staring in, etc.; and the tension in the game is so thick "you could cut it with a knife.")

(2) He makes contact with you as he heads out to the mound (maybe even shaking his head), or he just stares you down. OR as he goes out to the mounds he doesn't just stroll out to the mound like normal...but rather MARCHES very purposefully to the mound (as in he wants to get there very quickly...so he can get to talking to you very quickly).

(2) He gets out to the mound and doesn't even talk to the pitcher/players but for a second. Rather, he's spending more time looking down at his shoe as he kicks around the dirt around the pitcher's plate.

(3) The head coach has his back to you, but a middle infielder (who is at the mound) is looking over the manager's shoulder at you. (A very, very strong indicator that the middle infielder waiting to tell his manager, "here he (the umpire) comes."

With any degree of experience, the umpire "knows". At that point its time to "get it on".

[mrm21711]

Originally Posted by lawump

In little league you might be right...but high school and college you "know" when a manager/head coach is only out there to discuss things with you. How do you know? Here are some signs:

(1) You can tell from the situation in the game. (For instance: Close calls going against defense/pitcher; pitcher may be complaining or staring in, etc.; and the tension in the game is so thick "you could cut it with a knife.")

(2) He makes contact with you as he heads out to the mound (maybe even shaking his head), or he just stares you down. OR as he goes out to the mounds he doesn't just stroll out to the mound like normal...but rather MARCHES very purposefully to the mound (as in he wants to get there very quickly...so he can get to talking to you very quickly).

(2) He gets out to the mound and doesn't even talk to the pitcher/players but for a second. Rather, he's spending more time looking down at his shoe as he kicks around the dirt around the pitcher's plate.

(3) The head coach has his back to you, but a middle infielder (who is at the mound) is looking over the manager's shoulder at you. (A very, very strong indicator that the middle infielder waiting to tell his manager, "here he (the umpire) comes."

With any degree of experience, the umpire "knows". At that point its time to "get it on".

Does anybody ever give any thought to the idea of restricting the coach to the bench first? This is what our people thought would have been most appropriate.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by lawump

In little league you might be right...but high school and college you "know" when a manager/head coach is only out there to discuss things with you. How do you know?

Please don't imply that I work LL. No offense to the LL'ers, but I'm not one of them.

(2) He makes contact with you as he heads out to the mound (maybe even shaking his head), or he just stares you down. OR as he goes out to the mounds he doesn't just stroll out to the mound like normal...but rather MARCHES very purposefully to the mound (as in he wants to get there very quickly...so he can get to talking to you very quickly).

How would I know what he's doing. I'm ignoring him, doing my job.

He gets out to the mound and doesn't even talk to the pitcher/players but for a second. Rather, he's spending more time looking down at his shoe as he kicks around the dirt around the pitcher's plate. The head coach has his back to you, but a middle infielder (who is at the mound) is looking over the manager's shoulder at you. (A very, very strong indicator that the middle infielder waiting to tell his manager, "here he (the umpire) comes."

Again, how would I know.

All that said ... yes, I DO know when it's likely he's only going out there to get tossed. But there's nothing wrong with giving him 15-20 to cool down, and it might save an ejection. And it is certainly possible that if you decide to walk out there and meet him, he could simply begin issuing instruction to his pitcher to make you look the fool (and you WOULD look the fool). To me - walking out there like you suggest is simply baiting the manager.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Please don't imply that I work LL. No offense to the LL'ers, but I'm not one of them.

How would I know what he's doing. I'm ignoring him, doing my job.

Which is what at the point in time the coach asks you for time as he heads to his pitcher?

Again, how would I know.

Now what are you doing?

To me - walking out there like you suggest is simply baiting the manager.

You never walk to the mound to break up a conference? Not being facetious. I know that not all umpires do and, in fact, there are some areas where it is frowned upon.

[lawump]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Please don't imply that I work LL. No offense to the LL'ers, but I'm not one of them.

Not implying that you work in LL...I am implying that your post that I first replied too in this thread was suggesting a LL-like mechanic. I've been to too many LL games (my son plays) where instead of dealing with a "non-routine situation" being created by a coach, the umpire puts his head in the proverbial sand and hopes that the situation will just go away.

(I've seen many an umpire who I just knew had to be thinking: "Maybe if I just stay here and sweep the plate till its real white, AND then re-set my indicator-clicky thing, AND then get some new baseballs from the ball boy AND then adjust my ball bags AND then re-draw the inside batter's box line for the next batter AND, AND, AND....he'll just leave the mound on his own and I won't have to talk to him.")

Originally Posted by mcrowder

How would I know what he's doing. I'm ignoring him, doing my job.

If you're ignoring him...then you are NOT doing your job.

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Again, how would I know.

I agree YOU wouldn't know, because, as I typed, you are likely not doing your job.

Originally Posted by mcrowder

But there's nothing wrong with giving him 15-20 to cool down, and it might save an ejection. And it is certainly possible that if you decide to walk out there and meet him, he could simply begin issuing instruction to his pitcher to make you look the fool (and you WOULD look the fool). To me - walking out there like you suggest is simply baiting the manager.

As I said above in this thread...you're mechanic is NOT the mechanic taught at umpire school, period. I know this the new mellow age of umpiring...and I have mellowed A LOT over the last 10 years...but sometimes Mr. Red *** has to come out. And if going out to the mounds when you know that the manager is waiting for you is being a Red *** (which I don't concede)...then so be it.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by GarthB

You never walk to the mound to break up a conference? Not being facetious. I know that not all umpires do and, in fact, there are some areas where it is frowned upon.

Garth ... please read my post that he was referring to - All of these questions are answered. I'm ABSOLUTELY not saying not to go out there to break up a conference. Of course you do. I was disagreeing with the comment made that "if you know the coach is only coming out to get himself ejected, you should go out there immediately and get it over with." I'm saying to handle this sitch the same way you would any other conference.