Questionable play, wrong umpire

[bossman72]

What do you do when the coach argues about a play (no call) that is not in your jurisdiction?

Examples would be:

You are BU. A catch/no catch outside the "v" or a runner's lane violation.

The gut reaction is to say "that's not my call," since it really isn't, but i don't feel comfortable "passing the buck" to my partner and it seems like it would make you look bad. At the same time, how could you comment on a play that you didn't see (or briefly saw and had a terrible look at)?


What would you guys do in this situation?

Thanks!

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by bossman72

What do you do when the coach argues about a play (no call) that is not in your jurisdiction?

Examples would be:

You are BU. A catch/no catch outside the "v" or a runner's lane violation.

The gut reaction is to say "that's not my call," since it really isn't, but i don't feel comfortable "passing the buck" to my partner and it seems like it would make you look bad. At the same time, how could you comment on a play that you didn't see (or briefly saw and had a terrible look at)?

What would you guys do in this situation?

Thanks!

Covered in pregame. If the coach is that dumb, the umpire who owns the call, tells him,"That's my call, coach."

[waltjp]

If we're working together and a coach starts to talk/discuss/argue one of my calls with you I'd expect you to tell him exactly that, "Coach, that's not my call." You should follow by telling him that if he wants to discuss the call he should see me. If he continues to complain to YOU, then YOU show him the exit.

[blueump]

Originally Posted by waltjp

If we're working together and a coach starts to talk/discuss/argue one of my calls with you I'd expect you to tell him exactly that, "Coach, that's not my call." You should follow by telling him that if he wants to discuss the call he should see me. If he continues to complain to YOU, then YOU show him the exit.

Wow it always amazes me how quick a toss finger some people have. Throwing out a coach is NOT a badge of honor! Coaches need to be able to question calls. Don't take it personally, unless they make it person.

The most respected umpires in my area have thick skin. They don't take profanity or personal attacks, but simply arguing a call won't make them toss a coach. The more experience you get at umpiring, the less likely you are to toss people. My first year, I probably tossed 8 coaches. Now that I've matured I average less than one a year.

I'd be willing to bet that most of the "quick toss" comments on this board are made by guys that simply want to sound tough, but are all talk.

[David B]

Originally Posted by blueump

Wow it always amazes me how quick a toss finger some people have. Throwing out a coach is NOT a badge of honor! Coaches need to be able to question calls. Don't take it personally, unless they make it person.

That's simply not true. Coaches don't have the right to question calls, they only have the right to ask about a rules interpretation.

A good umpire doesn't explain his decisions to any one - especially a dumb coach. If a coach comes to me and its my partners call, then I tell him, "Coach, let me ask my partner, that was his call."

And I personally will go to the other umpire and ask. IMO that lets the coach know that he doesn't understand how umpires work. If the coach asks, then I might tell him that I was watching etc., and my partner has the ______ on that play.

Example, check swing and my partner says he didn't go. Coach comes to me, then I will tell him if you would like to talk with my partner go ahead, he made the call."

Another is a missed base, seems the coach always thinks its the BU who watches all the bases- Ugh!

Thanks
David

[LMan]

Originally Posted by David B

If a coach comes to me and its my partners call, then I tell him, "Coach, let me ask my partner, that was his call."

And I personally will go to the other umpire and ask.

Why would you carry a coach's water for him? Just say, "coach, that's my partner's call, ask him." No need to be rude (initially ) , but send the coach to the source, not an intermediary.

I've never seen an umpire act as a coach's representative, the entire idea is foreign to me.

I'm not going to deliver a coach's question/argument to my partner....if the coach wants an attorney, he can go find one in the Yellow Pages.

[ctblu40]

Originally Posted by David B

If a coach comes to me and its my partners call, then I tell him, "Coach, let me ask my partner, that was his call."

And I personally will go to the other umpire and ask.

This is bad advice. Why would you not just steer the coach to your partner?

Personally, I let the coach have his say, and when he starts repeating himself, I say, "That's my partners call, go ask him."

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by blueump

Wow it always amazes me how quick a toss finger some people have. Throwing out a coach is NOT a badge of honor! Coaches need to be able to question calls. Don't take it personally, unless they make it person.

The most respected umpires in my area have thick skin. They don't take profanity or personal attacks, but simply arguing a call won't make them toss a coach. The more experience you get at umpiring, the less likely you are to toss people. My first year, I probably tossed 8 coaches. Now that I've matured I average less than one a year.

I'd be willing to bet that most of the "quick toss" comments on this board are made by guys that simply want to sound tough, but are all talk.

Blueump - 18 years and probably about 12 ejections. Am I too quick with the thumb???

"If he continues to complain to YOU, then YOU show him the exit."

I'll stand by that statement - you've already told the coach that he had to talk to your partner about your partner's call; still he continues to complain to you about the call. Are you going to say "pretty please"?

Eight ejections in your first year and you're commenting on how quickly others toss a coach??? Maybe you should share your secret with me.

[johnnyg08]

Depends on the coach and how much you're willing to take from a coach...personally, I'm not going to change my call unless it's an incorrect rule interpretation or something of that nature...otherwise...as a coach, most don't know the rules anyway...and i'm not going to let a coach grandstand and try to show me or my partner up on the field. I'll let him say his piece and if it becomes personal, prolonged, or profane...I'll show him the door...I don't keep track of how many tosses I have...the best I can say is...not too many...I handle each situation as it's own entity...even if I have a history with a coach...if somebody questions my partner and it's my call, we cover this in our pregame...to direct the coach to the proper umpire...

[blueump]

Originally Posted by waltjp

Blueump - 18 years and probably about 12 ejections. Am I too quick with the thumb???

"If he continues to complain to YOU, then YOU show him the exit."

I'll stand by that statement - you've already told the coach that he had to talk to your partner about your partner's call; still he continues to complain to you about the call. Are you going to say "pretty please"?

Eight ejections in your first year and you're commenting on how quickly others toss a coach??? Maybe you should share your secret with me.

If I had a buck for every time someone on this board said "if he complains, toss him" I'd be in a totally different tax bracket. My point simply is that I think too many people here spout off about how they'd be a "big man" and toss anybody that questions their calls, but when it comes to real game situations, I think more level heads prevail.

Yes, I had about 8 my first year, when I was 19. Now, 20+ years later I think I've learned more about the game, and more about my own ego. I can admit when I'm wrong, and I can usually turn a coach back around and head him back to the dug-out without much of an argument. I don't mind people questioning what I've called, my line is personal comments and profanity. Usually if a coach is going to get tossed, he'll regress to those pretty quickly.

When it comes to a call my partner made, I'll do what you say you do, sending him in the direction of my partner. If he continues to complain and argue with me...he looks like the idiot on the field, not me!

[Rich]

Originally Posted by blueump

Wow it always amazes me how quick a toss finger some people have. Throwing out a coach is NOT a badge of honor! Coaches need to be able to question calls. Don't take it personally, unless they make it person.

The most respected umpires in my area have thick skin. They don't take profanity or personal attacks, but simply arguing a call won't make them toss a coach. The more experience you get at umpiring, the less likely you are to toss people. My first year, I probably tossed 8 coaches. Now that I've matured I average less than one a year.

I'd be willing to bet that most of the "quick toss" comments on this board are made by guys that simply want to sound tough, but are all talk.

Gee, I had 12 ejections 3 years ago. Must've been a bad umpire that year. I only had two a year later. I must've improved. Whoops, 9 last season, must've been a bad umpire last year.

I don't control other's behavior. My line doesn't move.

[Delaware Blue]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

I don't control other's behavior. My line doesn't move.

Some years it's quiet and other years I think there's something in the water (or Gatorade). What's the old saying? "We don't eject coaches (or players). They eject themselves. We just remind them of their decision and tell them when it's time to leave."

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by bossman72

What do you do when the coach argues about a play (no call) that is not in your jurisdiction?

Examples would be:

You are BU. A catch/no catch outside the "v" or a runner's lane violation.

The gut reaction is to say "that's not my call," since it really isn't, but i don't feel comfortable "passing the buck" to my partner and it seems like it would make you look bad. At the same time, how could you comment on a play that you didn't see (or briefly saw and had a terrible look at)?


What would you guys do in this situation?

Thanks!

"Coach, I cannot help you! You need to go to the gentleman who made the call. He is the only one that you can talk to."

This is not passing the buck, this is directing the coach properly. Only the umpire that made the call can discuss the call with the manager. Now if my partner, needs help, he will come to me - alone (in other words, without the coach)! This is discussed in the pre-game so there shouldn't be a problem.

[lawump]

Maybe its my pro training, but I tell the coach to "keep walking" over to my partner. Its not passing the buck...its having respect for your partner that he's a good enough umpire to handle his own "non-routine situations."

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by bossman72

What do you do when the coach argues about a play (no call) that is not in your jurisdiction?



Examples would be:

You are BU. A catch/no catch outside the "v" or a runner's lane violation.

Actually catch/no catch is a call.

And I have a bit of a different take on this than most.
If it is truly a 'no call' situation I'm not sending the coach to my partner, I'm sending him back to the dugout where he belongs.
One of my jobs is to keep the game moving, I'm not going to delay it by diverting the coach and delaying the game further. If it was a no call then nothing happened to warrant a call and I can tell the coach that as easily as my partner and then get on with the game.
If there's a rules issue at stake that's a different issue, but if it's a 'no call' a simple
"coach that's a judgement issue, let's get on with the game" will suffice 98% of the time.
Now, if you have reason to believe your partner made a bad judgement on the no call then you decide if you want to throw him under the bus, some will call that letting him fight his own battle, or nip it in the bud quickly and get on with it.
I think if you have a good partner and the discussion gets into the 2% range then he'll be out taking responsibility for the no call on his own. But 98% of the time I just made "Miller Time" come a bit earlier. Every minute I cut off the game increases my pay rate. I like giving myself raises.

I'm not advocating this for anything but 'no call' situations

Originally Posted by bossman72

At the same time, how could you comment on a play that you didn't see (or briefly saw and had a terrible look at)?

I think commenting on a play is a problem many umpires have. Too many times I hear umpires justifying their call to an irate coach. The less talking you do and the less justifying you do the less trouble you get in.