Umpire wrong. How to handle?

[warriordad]

Single umpire. Two outs. Runners at 1st and 2nd. Batter stikes out, but catcher misses the ball. Runner starts running to 1st, but is called out by the umpire before the catcher has a chance to throw the ball. When questioned, the umpire states that the batter is out if 1st is occupied even with two outs. The coach didn't have the rulebook to show the ump the rule. No attempt was made to argue the call since the ump had already ejected ALL of the parents from BOTH teams (they had to watch the rest of the game from the parking lot). The coaches and scorekeepers where the only ones allowed to stay

My question is this. Do I attempt to "educate" this umpire by giving him a copy of the rule that applies? After the play, he seemed to question himself as to whether he made the right call. We're trying to teach the boys what to do in certain situations and it is confusing to them when the ump makes a call such as this. I'm not interested in rehashing an old game. I just want to see him make the right call the next time this situation comes up.

Suggestions?

[Baseball_North]

My personal opinion.....

Never correct an umpire in the middle of a game, unless it is with regards to a specific league rule. ie - pitcher inning limits, 2 out catcher rule, etc....

Even if he is wrong, this is embarassing and it will look like you are trying to show them up in the middle of a game.

What is your position here? Coach? Parent? League executive? I would notify the League that this specific umpires is making incorrect calls based on strict rules in the rules of baseball.

So overall, after the game is the time to do it.

That is why there should always be at least two umpires at every game.

[wobster]

Well, the way it sounds, both teams did enough arguing with him when they were there that he doesn't want to hear any more after.

If you have a problem, talk to his UIC. The UIC, if there is one in your organization, is the only one who should try to correct an umpires interpretation after the game. If a fan brought me a rule book after the game attempting to educate me, I would be more that a little upset. Chances are if he missed a call, he knows it himself, and has already looked up the rule. This is why we keep journals of our games.

Yes, 2 or even 3 umpires is good.

[wobster]

What age group is this? Is the umpire certified or just a volunteer?

[warriordad]

The age level was 13-14, FED rules, and the umpire was certified at the state HS level. He claimed that he umps Div I college games, but I found that hard to believe.

I am a parent, but I got to stay after the mass ejection because I was keeping score. I did make a point to note in the book that the 3rd strike was not caught. I became involved in the discussion when the ump approached our coach and myself and tried to explain his call.

In case you are wondering why all of the parents were ejected, one parent (from our team) started questioning the strike zone (stike zone was small, but consistent for both teams). Rather than determine who the culprit was, the ump decided the easiest thing to do was to make everyone leave.

[Edited by warriordad on May 19th, 2004 at 03:27 PM]

[wobster]

He may have umped D1 College games, but this never came up. I can tell you from experience, you can read the rule book 10 times, and still miss a call such as this. I have umpired higher level games, but I still miss a few calls when umpiring the 7-9 age group too. It happens.

As for the mass ejection, either you guys were worse than you claim, or he was having a real bad day and didn't feel like arguing with a moron parent (I have them days too, but resisted ejecting anyone).

I would bet you some serious money that he went home and looked up the rule because he knows he kicked it. He wouldn't tell you if 10 seconds after the call he remembered the rule, and KNOWS he blew it. At least I wouldn't.

[mcrowder]

This is the head coach's responsibility to fix.

If PU screws up a judgment call, keep it to yourself.

However, if PU screws up a rule, there is nothing wrong with discussing it with PU, if you are the head coach. HC should have, in this case, calmly approached PU and mentioned that he thought he had the rule wrong. Any PU that would eject you for that needs to retire. If he still insists, you protest the game.

An error like this that affects the game MUST be discussed at the time it was made, but by the HC. Don't wait until after the game. Don't wait until tomorrow. Give PU the chance to make it right ON THE FIELD, and protest if necessary.

As scorekeeper, however, you are required to be an impartial observer. I would not mention the error AT ALL, until after your scorekeeper duties are finished. I won't even let my scorekeepers (even though they are invariably parents of one team) make suggestions to their own children during game play.

[greymule]

I can't believe anyone who umpires college games could possibly not know such a basic rule.

That play comes up several times a season and is common at the levels where it is first in effect (13-15 baseball). Even an ump whose knowledge of the rules came from TV would have learned that rule the hard way in his first year.

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Dropped third strike is not always easy to see. Maybe he missed that portion of the play. I have.

His later comments may just have been to defend himself.

Sounds like it wasn't a great day for him.

Had a game last week... third strike looked caught to me - ball was outside and a foot above the ground. Batter takes off; they often do. I say "Batter's out. She caught it." I say it twice. Runner continues. Catcher throws the ball. Runner gets on base.

I ask my partner, "She caught the ball didn't she?" He says No it came out! Apparently she dropped it as she raised up and smoothly picked up to make the throw. We let the runner stay on base. Defensive coach complained a little but acquiesced in the end.

[DG]

I have never seen all the parents from both teams ejected from a game. It is an arguable point that he has the right to do that. However, this guy is out of control and IMO does not umpire any college level or high school level ball. I know this because he does not know this rule, and he ejected all the parents from both sides. One parent complaining about ball-strikes gets them all ejected. Get real.

If I were coaching, I would call time and see if the other coach and I could agree to play this game some other time. If not, I would declare that I am playing the game under protest, that the umpire does not have the authority to eject all my fans, and that I am now playing at a disadvantage. Let the league president sort that out. There is no point in discussing rules with this umpire, he is an idiot. Or, I might just decide to pack my sh*t up and go the parking lot to meet with the players and parents, file my report with the league president, and let things happen. After the league president gets my report and 25 or so phone calls from parents this issue will be resolved for the future.

[just another ref]

We had a similar situation earlier this year. PU forgot momentarily which field he was on, he had been calling the younger kids more often this year. He yelled, "Batter's out! That's not a foul ball! It hit my shin guard!" Fortunately my guy kept running (surprise) and was safe at first without a throw. I asked later what if my batter had stopped when he heard the out call and was told he would have been awarded first base. Is this right? Conversely, the defense in this case could have argued that their catcher stopped when he heard the call. (I don't think he really did, but it would have been worth a try ) What is the deal in baseball about a black and white (correctable error?) case such as this, or an infield fly call, but, oops, there was no runner on first, etc. Want to be prepared next time. Thanks.

[His High Holiness]

Originally posted by greymule
I can't believe anyone who umpires college games could possibly not know such a basic rule.

I can. There are some severe incompetents out there umpiring college baseball. We steal their contracts all the time.

Peter

[Rich]

Originally posted by His High Holiness

I can. There are some severe incompetents out there umpiring college baseball. We steal their contracts all the time.

Peter

Add me to this list. I worked with two college umpires this season -- one who does D-I -- who didn't know the rule about when you disregard a balk. BOTH thought the offensive team has a choice whether to accept a balk or take the results of the play.

[LDUB]

Originally posted by just another ref
He yelled, "Batter's out! That's not a foul ball! It hit my shin guard!"

"It hit my shinguard"???? I guess this guy feels the need to vocalize where the ball hits him or something.

[PeteBooth]

Originally posted by warriordad

Single umpire. Two outs. Runners at 1st and 2nd. Batter stikes out, but catcher misses the ball. Runner starts running to 1st, but is called out by the umpire before the catcher has a chance to throw the ball. When questioned, the umpire states that the batter is out if 1st is occupied even with two outs.

My question is this. Do I attempt to "educate" this umpire by giving him a copy of the rule that applies?

First off does this league have protest procedures?

The simple answer is: Protest the ruling: No need to educate, go ballistic,etc. If there are no protest procdures you are out of luck.

Now I will put on my "Shirlock Holmes" hat and surmize what I think happened without being there.

No attempt was made to argue the call since the ump had already ejected ALL of the parents from BOTH teams (they had to watch the rest of the game from the parking lot). The coaches and scorekeepers where the only ones allowed to stay

Sounds like this was a rough game and the umpire simply wanted to get the game over with. He probably thought that the coach didn't know the rule, and had enough so he wanted to go home.

My next question is this.

Umpires cannot EJ spectators. They can ask for their removal, but we don't EJ fans. If it was that bad, he should have simply stopped the game and went home.

Bottom line - Sounds like there is more to the story than "meets the eye".

Pete Booth