Over throw at 1st

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by archangel

Since this was a JV scrimmage I did not want to change his call as I was on the plate but I believe he should have gotten 3rd since he beat the throw.

It doesnt matter if it was a scrimmage or not, its not your place to change his call....

As this is a rules application issue, not a judgement call, I think you have a duty to get together with your partner and straighten it out. Correctly applying the rules is a duty of both umpires and is not "overruling" your partners call.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by UMP25

He probably meant that, but when an infielder throws to retire a runner, the throw is the first play.

Unless he makes a legitimate tag attempt on another runner.

I know I'm being pedantic. It's early and I haven't had any coffee.

[UMP25]

Except that no one ever mentioned a tag attempt. Now we're just making things more complicated for the lad.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

As this is a rules application issue, not a judgement call, I think you have a duty to get together with your partner and straighten it out.

However, in this case, it's just as well that he didn't, or the result could have been changing a correct ruling to an incorrect ruling.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

Rich,

You are rarely inaccurate, so this surprised me. You meant to say "first PLAY" rather than first throw, right?

--Rich

Interesting observation.

In OBR the rule refers to first play, but this question was about a JV game (FED).

8-3-5 refers to the first play but the awards table (Two bases item 5) it says "first throw by an infielder . . ." so I just picked "throw".

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by archangel

Since this was a JV scrimmage I did not want to change his call as I was on the plate but I believe he should have gotten 3rd since he beat the throw.

It doesnt matter if it was a scrimmage or not, its not your place to change his call....

NO!

We should never jump in on partner's judgement calls, as has been noted here numerous times.

But if partner is misapplying a rule (he wasn't here, but imagine if OP was the BU and a guy who knew the rule was PU), you MUST correct the situation. A base award like this sitch IS a rule, and if BU had given the runner 3rd, it should be corrected (the best way would be for PU to get BU together and have BU actually do the correction).

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Interesting observation.

In OBR the rule refers to first play, but this question was about a JV game (FED).

8-3-5 refers to the first play but the awards table (Two bases item 5) it says "first throw by an infielder . . ." so I just picked "throw".

FED inconsistent? Big surprise there.

I wasn't trying to complicate the original play, either, UMP25. I just wanted to point out that once F6 lunges forward to try to tag R2 running by the award basis changes (although the actual award may very well be the same).

[LMan]

Originally Posted by UMP25

Except that no one ever mentioned a tag attempt.

I do note, however, that no one has yet addressed the clear interference by the runner advancing from 2B.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by LMan

I do note, however, that no one has yet addressed the clear interference by the runner advancing from 2B.

Good point. And we've completely neglected the ball coming in from the other field, and the bucket knocked over rolling between third and home. And ... of course ... what type of shinguard PU was wearing, and how he felt about that shinguard.;

[Rich]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Good point. And we've completely neglected the ball coming in from the other field, and the bucket knocked over rolling between third and home. And ... of course ... what type of shinguard PU was wearing, and how he felt about that shinguard.;

I'm more interested in knowing how the shinguard felt.

Well, this is fun, but I gots a game this afternoon and a 2 hour drive to get there.

Let's stretch it a bit - R1 on 1B takes off with pitch, B hits between F5 and F6 at back edge of infield, R1 has reached 2B and BR has reached 1B before F6 begins throw to F3 who throws OB. I give R1 home and B/R 3B - 2 bases from TOT.

[greymule]

Let's stretch it a bit - R1 on 1B takes off with pitch, B hits between F5 and F6 at back edge of infield, R1 has reached 2B and BR has reached 1B before F6 begins throw to F3 who throws OB. I give R1 home and B/R 3B - 2 bases from TOT.

In that extraordinarily unlikely situation, yes.

However, if R1 had reached 2B but the BR had not reached 1B, then R1 gets 3B and BR gets 2B.