Was I being a B!tch?

[w_sohl]

Get to a JV game and home team is taking infield. Visitors are in outfield throwing warm up. I inform they that while the home team is taking infield they need to be in the dugout for safety. The head coach goes on his rant that the kids need to warm up, I promise him that his kids will get their time to warm up. He continues to rant (I've been doing this for 16 years, etc.) but leaves the field asking for my name and assignors name, I give it to him and even offer to spell my last name as it isn't a common spelling. He declines my offer. I ask his kids to have their bats and helmets ready for me to check and he tells me that they don’t have time for that right now they have to warm-up. “Is that the way it’s going to be coach, was my response. When they finally do get their things together he just tosses the stuff out on the field for me to pick up and look at. He then hops on his cell phone to call one of the members of the association that he has on speed dial. That member informs him that as a courtesy they can warm-up in the outfield as long as they are out of the way, the coach then informs him of the situation described above and hands me the phone and this person tells me the same thing, but then goes on to say that by the book I am right. I made a point to say out loud while the coach was standing there, that it was fine as long as he knew that by the book I was right. I felt like my fellow official hung me out to dry and I called him the next day and told him as much. I have always enforced it this way because it was the way I was taught when I worked in Illinois, Indiana and hand not been informed to enforce it any differently here in California. They will bring it up in the meeting on Monday, I’ll be out of town on business, and hopefully we can get some sort of consistency.

[DG]

Originally Posted by w_sohl

Get to a JV game and home team is taking infield. Visitors are in outfield throwing warm up. I inform they that while the home team is taking infield they need to be in the dugout for safety. The head coach goes on his rant that the kids need to warm up, I promise him that his kids will get their time to warm up. He continues to rant (I've been doing this for 16 years, etc.) but leaves the field asking for my name and assignors name, I give it to him and even offer to spell my last name as it isn't a common spelling. He declines my offer. I ask his kids to have their bats and helmets ready for me to check and he tells me that they don’t have time for that right now they have to warm-up. “Is that the way it’s going to be coach, was my response. When they finally do get their things together he just tosses the stuff out on the field for me to pick up and look at. He then hops on his cell phone to call one of the members of the association that he has on speed dial. That member informs him that as a courtesy they can warm-up in the outfield as long as they are out of the way, the coach then informs him of the situation described above and hands me the phone and this person tells me the same thing, but then goes on to say that by the book I am right. I made a point to say out loud while the coach was standing there, that it was fine as long as he knew that by the book I was right. I felt like my fellow official hung me out to dry and I called him the next day and told him as much. I have always enforced it this way because it was the way I was taught when I worked in Illinois, Indiana and hand not been informed to enforce it any differently here in California. They will bring it up in the meeting on Monday, I’ll be out of town on business, and hopefully we can get some sort of consistency.

By what rule? I don't concern myself too much with where they warm up. However, if I ask to inspect bats and helments and coach goes into a rant and tosses them onto the field I would get rid of him.

[UmpJM]

DG,

Although probably more focused on the "remarks", I beleive 3.3.1 Situation G could be used to support the position that the other team shouldn't be on the field during their opponent's warmups.

JM

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by DG

By what rule? I don't concern myself too much with where they warm up. However, if I ask to inspect bats and helments and coach goes into a rant and tosses them onto the field I would get rid of him.

I don't have my book here, but doesn't 3-3-1g require that the players of the team not warming up remain in deadball territory?

[UmpJM]

Garth,

3-3-1g(5) says exactly that, with the exception of the bullpen.

JM

[RPatrino]

w_sohl, you are correct, that is the way we enforce it here on the left coast. Now, if a coach did that to me, he would spend the next several minutes putting everything back in the dugout, post haste. His next option would be to watch the game from the comfort of the bench, and his final option would be to start warming up the bus.

My second concern is why does this coach have an umpires number on speed dial? HMMMM, we have problems in River City. I would be very curious about this relationship. I would have never even taken the coach's phone in the first place, apart from being curious about who in my association is on that coach's speed dial.

Seems to me like someone has allowed this coach to believe that he controls the game, and somebody needs to 're-educate' this individual.

[DG]

Originally Posted by GarthB

I don't have my book here, but doesn't 3-3-1g require that the players of the team not warming up remain in deadball territory?

Thanks. That's a heck of a memory. 3-3-1g and Casebook 3.3.1 Situation G are about players committing unsportsmanlike acts, such as being on the field during warmups (??). Situation G actually mentions the team lining up on the first base foul line making unsportsmanlike comments to the team warming up.

I think it would be OOO to worry about this if one team is entirely in the outfield and no unsportsmanlike comments are being made. The normal practice around here is for both teams to warmup in the outfield and then they take turns using the field for outfield/infield practice while the other is in the dugout.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by DG

Thanks. That's a heck of a memory. 3-3-1g and Casebook 3.3.1 Situation G are about players committing unsportsmanlike acts, such as being on the field during warmups (??). Situation G actually mentions the team lining up on the first base foul line making unsportsmanlike comments to the team warming up.

I think it would be OOO to worry about this if one team is entirely in the outfield and no unsportsmanlike comments are being made. The normal practice around here is for both teams to warmup in the outfield and then they take turns using the field for outfield/infield practice while the other is in the dugout.

Does 3-3-1g in the rulebook specifically state it is for unsportsmanlike acts only? I understand that is the casebook justification.

If a team is taking infield, our practice is to not allow the other team to be in live ball territory, period. If they want to toss the ball, they can go outside the fence and do it in DBT.

[UmpJM]

Garth,

Originally Posted by GarthB

Does 3-3-1g in the rulebook specifically state it is for unsportsmanlike acts only? ...

The one being discussed is the fifth of five under the heading:

"

g. commit any unsportsmanlike act to include, but not limited to, ..."

So, it does kind of say that. Not necessarily really unsportsmanlike, but, kind of "technically". I think I'd go with the local custom and practice on this one, as long as there wasn't an issue.

JM

[Rich]

Originally Posted by w_sohl

Get to a JV game and home team is taking infield. Visitors are in outfield throwing warm up. I inform they that while the home team is taking infield they need to be in the dugout for safety. The head coach goes on his rant that the kids need to warm up, I promise him that his kids will get their time to warm up. He continues to rant (I've been doing this for 16 years, etc.) but leaves the field asking for my name and assignors name, I give it to him and even offer to spell my last name as it isn't a common spelling. He declines my offer. I ask his kids to have their bats and helmets ready for me to check and he tells me that they don’t have time for that right now they have to warm-up. “Is that the way it’s going to be coach, was my response. When they finally do get their things together he just tosses the stuff out on the field for me to pick up and look at. He then hops on his cell phone to call one of the members of the association that he has on speed dial. That member informs him that as a courtesy they can warm-up in the outfield as long as they are out of the way, the coach then informs him of the situation described above and hands me the phone and this person tells me the same thing, but then goes on to say that by the book I am right. I made a point to say out loud while the coach was standing there, that it was fine as long as he knew that by the book I was right. I felt like my fellow official hung me out to dry and I called him the next day and told him as much. I have always enforced it this way because it was the way I was taught when I worked in Illinois, Indiana and hand not been informed to enforce it any differently here in California. They will bring it up in the meeting on Monday, I’ll be out of town on business, and hopefully we can get some sort of consistency.

He tosses the stuff, I toss him. End of problem.

He calls another umpire on the phone, I toss him. End of problem.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by CoachJM

Garth,



The one being discussed is the fifth of five under the heading:



So, it does kind of say that. Not necessarily really unsportsmanlike, but, kind of "technically". I think I'd go with the local custom and practice on this one, as long as there wasn't an issue.

JM

I don't think you have to wait for a specific unsportsmanlke act to invoke this particular rule. It appears to me to be preventative in nature and appropriate to enforce before a problem occurs.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

He tosses the stuff, I toss him. End of problem.

He calls another umpire on the phone, I toss him. End of problem.

Agreed. This would beat my earliest ejection, one at the plate conference.

[waltjp]

NF 3-3-1
A coach, player, substitute, attendant or other bench personnel shall not:

g. commit any unsportsmanlike acts to include, but not limited to,

5. be in live ball territory (excluding team's bullpen area) during the opponent's infield practice prior to the start of the game.

Sounds like this covers it.

[canadaump6]

I hate all the bulls*** that happens before a game. Standing around on my own/in the fan seating area waiting for my partner to show up for 20 minutes, coaches not hustling to ground rules, delay in getting game started, having to request game balls from coaches, coaches getting *****y when I ask for 3 instead of 2, etc.; but especially the thing about having to stand around the diamond on my own until my plate partner arrives 5 minutes before first pitch.

[LMan]

Originally Posted by waltjp

NF 3-3-1
A coach, player, substitute, attendant or other bench personnel shall not:

g. commit any unsportsmanlike acts to include, but not limited to,

5. be in live ball territory (excluding team's bullpen area) during the opponent's infield practice prior to the start of the game.

Sounds like this covers it.

I have never seen/had a team take infield after Ive arrived at a field. They do outfield drills, calestentics (sp), and long toss, but not traditional infield. So, I guess this hasn't come up for me (yet).

Having said that, I will encounter it in my next game