2-Man crew loophole?

[pingswinger]

With R1 and R3, B1 hits a foul fly on firstbase side off into foul ball territory. With a lot of foul territory, the flyball carries first baseman way over by fence. My question: On a tag situation, I found myself on 3B line extended way over by dugout checking the catch/no catch on the foul ball. It then dawned on me that the runner could have advanced at third without me checking tag. Is this my responbility or BU responsibility.

[PeteBooth]

The aforementioned is the PU's responsibility.

As PU you "straddle the difference" meaning you do not TOTALLY Commit either way. You line yourself up to see the catch /no-catch and also keep an eye on R3

This type play is a major problem when umpiring on fileds that have so called "imaginary lines" to define LBT/DBT. When you umpire on fields that are not lined properly etc. benefit to the defense. Outs are our friends.

Pete Booth

[bob jenkins]

Catch-No Catch has the priority over runners tagging up.

A good U1 will know that UIC will have difficulty with the tag-up and help out by checking on R3 (while maintaining his responsibility for R1)

[bob jenkins]

Catch-No Catch has the priority over runners tagging up.

A good U1 will know that UIC will have difficulty with the tag-up and help out by checking on R3 (while maintaining his responsibility for R1)

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by pingswinger

With R1 and R3, B1 hits a foul fly on firstbase side off into foul ball territory. With a lot of foul territory, the flyball carries first baseman way over by fence. My question: On a tag situation, I found myself on 3B line extended way over by dugout checking the catch/no catch on the foul ball. It then dawned on me that the runner could have advanced at third without me checking tag. Is this my responbility or BU responsibility.

Good question.
Here's my take

Since BU is in B there's no way for him to line up to see both the catch and
R3s tag. You actually have the best angle since you are at a 90 deg. to ball and R3, BU is 180 deg. You just have to turn your head to pick up R3 after the catch, BU has to turn entire body.
The bigger concern to me is getting back to the plate to make an informed call if there's a play at home.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by pingswinger

With R1 and R3, B1 hits a foul fly on firstbase side off into foul ball territory. With a lot of foul territory, the flyball carries first baseman way over by fence. My question: On a tag situation, I found myself on 3B line extended way over by dugout checking the catch/no catch on the foul ball. It then dawned on me that the runner could have advanced at third without me checking tag. Is this my responbility or BU responsibility.

I would not try to gain distance on this play. I aslo would not be on 3BLE. Remaining on the third baseline side of the plate, I would go no more than half the distance towards the back stop. At the catch, I quickly check R3. If he's no more than a step and a half off third, he didn't leave early.

I'm still close enough to get into position for a play at the plate and I'm not in the way of the throw.

[Durham]

Jim teaches, "As far as the play will allow!"

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by Durham

Jim teaches, "As far as the play will allow!"

And JIm reminds us to consider all plays that are imminent.

[w_sohl]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Catch-No Catch has the priority over runners tagging up.

A good U1 will know that UIC will have difficulty with the tag-up and help out by checking on R3 (while maintaining his responsibility for R1)

Wouldn't this be a good pregame discussion? Seems like it might be possible for the U1 to take the runner at 3rd and let the UIC switch responsibility, as far as tagging, to the runner at 1st and the catch.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by w_sohl

Wouldn't this be a good pregame discussion? Seems like it might be possible for the U1 to take the runner at 3rd and let the UIC switch responsibility, as far as tagging, to the runner at 1st and the catch.

Sure -- but an umpire should always know what his partner(s) are watching and look to help. Another example: R1 only. Trouble ball to center. R1 goes 2/3 of the way to second. Just at the time of the catch/no-catch, BR reaches first. Who should watch BR touch? By pure mechanics, it's U1. But, U1 is "busy" and UIC has nothing to do. So, UIC should help out and watch the touch.

[PeteBooth]

Even in a Pre-Game discussion it's virtually impossible to discuss many of these type plays.

IMO, there is nothing like communication during these type plays.

Using Bob's eample below, if by chance you didn't discuss this in pre-game communicate with your partner during the play.

Example: R1 ONLY and is in a pcikle between 1st and second.

Rather than have your partner the BU work hard, you as PU simply head towards first and when you get there COMMUNICATE this with your partner.

I am not advocating having no PRE-game etc. but in the event something was not covered, then Communicate with your partner.

Pete Booth

[3appleshigh]

I know a coach/ump, that has taught his kids, with a runner on 2nd to bunt on the first baseline, real close, also on the pitch r2 is stealing, they hit the cutout at third base and turn for home there, missing third by 3-4 feet, and easily scoring even if they get the BR @ 1st. His theory is there is no one there to see the touch/no touch of third. Very sneeky, obnoxious and a poor sport, but I gotta give him credit on using the two man to his advantage. This kind of Coach is bad for the game though.

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by 3appleshigh

I know a coach/ump, that has taught his kids, with a runner on 2nd to bunt on the first baseline, real close, also on the pitch r2 is stealing, they hit the cutout at third base and turn for home there, missing third by 3-4 feet, and easily scoring even if they get the BR @ 1st. His theory is there is no one there to see the touch/no touch of third. Very sneeky, obnoxious and a poor sport, but I gotta give him credit on using the two man to his advantage. This kind of Coach is bad for the game though.

Is this the same coach teaching his kids to bean the BR going to first?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by 3appleshigh

I know a coach/ump, that has taught his kids, with a runner on 2nd to bunt on the first baseline, real close, also on the pitch r2 is stealing, they hit the cutout at third base and turn for home there, missing third by 3-4 feet, and easily scoring even if they get the BR @ 1st. His theory is there is no one there to see the touch/no touch of third. Very sneeky, obnoxious and a poor sport, but I gotta give him credit on using the two man to his advantage. This kind of Coach is bad for the game though.

This is nothing new. And it has gotten runners and coaches ejected, too.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Don Mueller

Is this the same coach teaching his kids to bean the BR going to first?

If the BR is clearly out of the running lane, I see no problem with F2 plunking him as long as the defense is prepared for the umpire to not call anything.