base awards

[newump]

#3
i don't see how the defense can appeal again once they throw the ball out of play. where do you find the reference to "continuous action"
OBR
7.10 explantion following sub section (d)
"successive appeals may not be made on a runner at the same base. If the defensive team on its first appeal errs, a request for a second appeal on the same runner at the same base shall not be allowed by the umpire. (Intended meaning of the word "err" is that the defensive team in making an appeal threw the ball out of play.)"

i can't find a distinction which allows for a 2nd appeal just because the first appeal took place during "continuous action"

[UmpJM]

newump,

The basic situation you pose is that a runner who is under a retouch obligation (in your example, 1B) is beyond his advance base (2B) both at the time the ball became dead and at the time of throw (TOT).

#2. Under...

OBR - he is allowed to complete his retouch as long as after the ball became dead he does not proceed to or past the base beyond where he is at the time the ball became dead (3B in your example).

NCAA - he is allowed to complete his retouch as long as he is attempting to return to his retouch base at the time the ball becomes dead (in the umpire's judgement).

FED - he is not allowed to complete his retouch obligation, unless the umpire judges that the defense intentionally threw the ball out of play to prevent his retouch. Absent such judgement, even if he physically goes back and properly retouches, he is still liable to an appeal.

#3. The defense may still appeal, even though they threw the ball out of play during their initial attempt to appeal during the continuous action of the play, as bossman & Rich Ives suggest. You will not find this stated anywhere in the text of the rules. The J/R provides a thorough explanation of this principle, and it is treated the same in all three codes.

#1. There are two schools of thought on whether the umpire (in your situation) should properly award the runner 3B or Home.

One school says the umpire should initially award the runner Home, because, at the TOT he was beyond 2B. Since this is certainly a TOT award, 2 bases beyond 2B is clearly home. If the runner subsequently legally completes his retouch obligation, the umpire then changes his award to an award of 3B (2bases beyond his "original" or retouch base.) This school is supported by the MLBUM and is what Rich Ives suggested.

The other school of thought says that if the runne ris "obviously" attempting to return at the time the ball becomes dead, simply award him 2 bases from his original base and dispense with the rigamarole of first awarding him Home and then "changing" the award to 3B. This rulling is supported in J/R and by Carl Childress. This is consistent with what bossman suggested.

Personally, I like the second school of thought on this question a little better, & that's what I'd do if this situation occurred in a game I was working.

JM

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by CoachJM

Personally, I like the second school of thought on this question a little better, & that's what I'd do if this situation occurred in a game I was working.

So do I. And, it was discussd at theis year's NCAA meeting. It was suggested to use the wording, "You are awarded third." That way, if R1 doesn't return to first before accepting the award, the manager can't complain that we told the runner to proceed diretly to third.