Trick play for the early season

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

So when does a pickoff start?

We're told by rule that a "play" is an attempt to get someone out, right? Generally (in normal cases, but not this one) I think most umpires would mean the "play" starts when the throw starts. HOWEVER, in this particular case, the verbal action by F6 WAS most definitely the beginning of THIS attempt to get the runner out. So in THIS case, I believe the verbal actions of the fielder were during an attempt to get a runner out, and thus could be interpreted as obstruction. (Except that I remember calling, "TIME!" )

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

We're told by rule that a "play" is an attempt to get someone out, right? Generally (in normal cases, but not this one) I think most umpires would mean the "play" starts when the throw starts. HOWEVER, in this particular case, the verbal action by F6 WAS most definitely the beginning of THIS attempt to get the runner out. So in THIS case, I believe the verbal actions of the fielder were during an attempt to get a runner out, and thus could be interpreted as obstruction. (Except that I remember calling, "TIME!" )

Your memory's getting rusty, not only did I not call time, I think that had the obstruction not occurred, the runner would have scored!

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

Call obstruction, award R2 third base and eject F6 (and in due course, the manager) for unsportsmanlike conduct.

I could and would sell the delayed time out call, but personally I'd have a hard time with obstruction. I may not allow the out but I'm not going to penalize f6 or the defense for trying. Not the first time anyway. I'd give em a pass, an A for effort and creativity, get a good laugh out of it and then get on with the game.
Best of all manager and f6 stay in the game, and I don't have a gamestopper on my hands.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

So when does a pickoff start?

Apparently, to some, when F6 falls to his knees.

[DG]

I am pretty sure I would call time if F6 fell to his knees as if he is having a heart attack. If defensive coach complained that I killed their play I would then ask "oh, so he was really verbally obstructing the runner, is that what you are saying?"

[Rcichon]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Really? Who was running the bases in reverse order?

(PS - I HATE when fellow officials use that phrase as a crutch ... pet peeve of mine)

Hey Crowder, I LOVE it when fellow officials get personal to boost their own ego. Reminds me of how not to act. Thanks for the model...

BTW: Thanks Rich and no sarcasm intended.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by Rcichon

Hey Crowder, I LOVE it when fellow officials get personal to boost their own ego. Reminds me of how not to act. Thanks for the model...

BTW: Thanks Rich and no sarcasm intended.

Who got personal? Crowder related a pet peeve...one that many share. If you took it personally that's your issue. Misrepresenting "travesty" is all too common. Words have meanings.

[UmpJM]

Originally Posted by GarthB

... Words have meanings.

"When I use a word, it means just what I choose it to mean, neither more nor less." HD (said rather scornfully)

JM

[ozzy6900]

I've been contemplating this play all day. How about this for a resolution:

I am in "C", R2 leading off and F6 falls to his knees moaning. "TIME! Coach, get out here, I think your player is having a problem!"

There, now if F6 gets to his feet he looks like a complete a$$. If the coach comes out, he's going to do some "splain'en, Ruucy". R2 stays at 2nd and I doubt they will try that one again!

[GarthB]

I received this from "Rcichon" a bit ago. I can only assume it is in referece to this thread:

Who asked you.
__________________
- Rob

In rely:

1. This is a public forum designed so that one can read and rely to any posting. If not for that, everyone who started a thread in which you replied could ask you the same question.

2. You made an accusation I felt was incorrect. I do not believe Mcrowder was being personal. I believe he was making a general statement. You apparently chose to take it personally.

3. You misused a rules term. I agree with those who belief that such errors need to be corrected so that less experienced officials do not accept them as correct.

4. If you have something to say, say it here. Don't hide behind a PM.

[Rcichon]

LOL Garth ok I'll post it. I just wanted to ATTEMPT to stay on-topic in threads and thought a PM was more appropos. I can see that subtlety is not your strong suit.

I don't think mcrowder needs your assistance and in fact I may have the wrong idea but really:
Who asked you? I didn't. Why not just shut up and mind your own business.

Rich Ives corrected me and I appreciated it. Did he get a PM from me? No. Crowder corrected me and I answered via posting in the thread.
You posted ad nauseum and I just had had enough.

So take a hint Garth: Only a moron beats a dead horse.

[jkumpire]

A question for our Fed folks here:

How do you call/teach the FPSR?

Q- R1, 1 out. BR hits to F4, who throws to F6 at 2B. F6 has one foot on the bag, 1 foot outside the baseline (i.e. to the outfield).
R1 slides with lead foot to the outfield side of the bag, but not to the bag. He makes no contact or alters the play of F6 making the turn. You as the PU or BU based on the throw:

A. R1 did not slide into the bag, dead ball, R1's out and BR is out.
B. R1 made no contact with the fielder and did not alter the play of F6. No FPSR violation.

I'll withold my comment for now. Thank you for yours.

[DG]

Originally Posted by jkumpire

A question for our Fed folks here:

How do you call/teach the FPSR?

Q- R1, 1 out. BR hits to F4, who throws to F6 at 2B. F6 has one foot on the bag, 1 foot outside the baseline (i.e. to the outfield).
R1 slides with lead foot to the outfield side of the bag, but not to the bag. He makes no contact or alters the play of F6 making the turn. You as the PU or BU based on the throw:

A. R1 did not slide into the bag, dead ball, R1's out and BR is out.
B. R1 made no contact with the fielder and did not alter the play of F6. No FPSR violation.

I'll withold my comment for now. Thank you for yours.

By rule, R1 is guilty of FPSR violation. He will do it correctly the next time.

[jkumpire]

I can't seem to delete the post I put in the wrong place. Sorry men.

But, in this situation I would be hard pressed not to throw someone out, or if it's a FED game, get them under 3-3-1g, 4. At the least in FED ball, the head coach and/or F6 get restricted to the dugout.

[David B]

Originally Posted by jkumpire

A question for our Fed folks here:

How do you call/teach the FPSR?

Q- R1, 1 out. BR hits to F4, who throws to F6 at 2B. F6 has one foot on the bag, 1 foot outside the baseline (i.e. to the outfield).
R1 slides with lead foot to the outfield side of the bag, but not to the bag. He makes no contact or alters the play of F6 making the turn. You as the PU or BU based on the throw:

A. R1 did not slide into the bag, dead ball, R1's out and BR is out.
B. R1 made no contact with the fielder and did not alter the play of F6. No FPSR violation.

I'll withold my comment for now. Thank you for yours.

The key words for FED you included in your first statement - "there was no contact or altering of the play"

As long as the slide is legal, then you do NOT have a FPSR. FED changed that a couple of years ago.

He didn't slide directly over the bag, but since he did not alter the play - no penalty. I'll check my books to get the actual ruling, but this is often misinterpreted by FED officials.

Thanks
David